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youbroughtheryouRiker

Secretly screwed-up society?

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In the special features for Season 2 of ENT, we see one of the head people (I think it was Berman), describe that the Vulcan society was secretly screwed-up. This kind of mindset guided a lot of the characterization of T'Pol, Soval, and other Vulcans.

 

Where on Earth did they get this idea? The closest I really ever came to seeing that with Spock was his indignation at being compared to humans, and with his admission that their choosing of mates was not at all logical. Other than that, I see it as not being so screwed-up at all. Not much from TAS or TNG to give that idea either. Is there something in DS9 or VOY that gives the idea that Vulcans are like this, or did the ENT people pull this completely out of thin air?

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Don't you know by now; Spock is very good at keeping his planets darkest secrets? "I was not disposed to speak of things of a personal nature" (<of Sybok)

 

Some of the early days of novels most acclaimed installments dealt with things happening on Vulcan which were never widely known in the sector.

 

I know I know, not canon but Berman must have thought enough of these authors and their storys dealing with the dark days of Vulcan prehistory to give them a canonical nod.

 

One of the reasons I liked ENT was because I read those books, I made the dark connections, it made sense to me.

 

Check out this brief story synopsis from one of said novels:

 

SPOCKS WORLD As Commander Spock, his father Sarek, and Captain James T. Kirk struggle to preserve Vulcan's future, the planet's innermost secrets are laid before us, from its beginnings millions of years ago to its savage prehistory, from merciless tribal warfare to medieval court intrigue, from the exploration of space to the the development of o'thia -- the ruling ethic of logic. And Spock -- torn between his duty to Starfleet and the unbreakable ties that bind him to Vulcan -- must find a way to reconcile both his own inner conflict and the external dilemma his planet faces...lest the Federation itself be ripped asunder.

 

Little known fact; there were ALOT of things the average joe or jane on the street did not know about Starfleets dealings with the Vulcans in Archers day, secrets which were kept until and beyond Kirks time and having much to do with tensions between the big four races.

 

But younger fans, with no real idea of the depths of Trek, killed it off in their hatred of Berman. :laugh:

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I remembering reading Spock's World when I was a teen. I highly recommend that book to anyone. The novel is very well written.

 

To tell you the truth there is little actually known about Vulcan other than what we have learn from Spock, Sarek, Tovek, and T'Pol. There much more than that about a culture than is shown on the show.

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Meh, in my opinion drawing off novels isn't sound. Though it seems to amply answer my question. As far as Spock keeping secrets, I've figured it had more to do with Vulcan society before Surak.

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"Alterego"

 

But younger fans, with no real idea of the depths of Trek, killed it off in their hatred of Berman

 

Blaming the fans achieves nothing. If Berman couldn't produce good enough material to satisfy the fans then the fault lies with him and those who approved his work. I strongly doubt anyone rejects Berman's material due to the fact it's too deep to comprehend or appreciate. :laugh:

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Excellently put, LB.

 

And I have to admit to being irked here. As a fan of music of the '60s and '70s, I've been to online groups for such a fanbase, and it's appalling that because I wasn't born until the '80s, my opinion isn't as valid, my ideas can be more blithely dismissed, and my love of the music isn't as "genuine" as those who were there the first time around. It's bullcrap all around. I'm actually pretty surprised to see that kind of mindset appearing in a Star Trek driven board.

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Well, YBHYR, I'm not a younger fan - and I still didn't see any "depth" to Berman's treatment of Vulcans or anything else. In fact I'm not even sure ENT was a reflection of Berman or the UPN suits that were trying to make it appeal to their target audience. IMO, they tried to make ENT appeal to the non-thinking, impulse driven masses that have come to characterize too many of the entertain me, gratify me generation. IMO it was the lack of depth that turned off long time fans but even at that it still had too much plot for the "reality" tv generation.

 

TOS debuted in a era when people still thought about social issues and life wasn't quite so materialistic or technology addicted as it is now. Simply put - shows with depth can't survive in the shallow medium of today's television. (unless they send in 25 tons of nuts to the network :biggrin: ) And I'm not speaking of any particular age - just a difference in decades

 

As for the secretly screwed up society - no idea what they're talking about - none of the societies ST created including Earth is realistic or even workable and I feel a little sad that I've come to realize this.

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If you love the music that was created before you were born, so? You can be just as knowledgeable about it, and love it as much, as those who grew up with it. (me included - I was born 1962)

I've read Vulcan's Heart and Spock's World and I much prefer the latter . . . Even now the Earth history we have is colored by regional bias and various, rampant theories that may or may not be close to the truth. History, as we perceive it, also has emotional bias. What was a crushing defeat to one people is a rousing victory to another. Even now there are debates going on saying the Holocaust never happened and that man never walked on the moon. I am not going to debate either; I am in the 'Yes, they happened" camp for the record.

Some of the ideas in Spock's World are pretty sound when applied to what we do know about Vulcan society. But in turn, the Vulcans would have a rather colorful explanation about why they think the Humans were lucky to even make it through the Dark Ages let alone to space.

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Every culture has something "screwed up" about it. The Vulcans eventually attained a state of emotionlessness to correct their "issues". It actually made them all the more fascinating.

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VULCANS are as much fun as watching paint dry

 

hmmm. I think your onto something there.

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