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MeeMaw

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I just watched the eppy where B'lona (sorry about the spelling) found out she was preggers. Good eppy, but it made me extremely angry. To think that she wanted to 'change' her child ticked me off big time. That baby is going to have a totally different life than hers and what gave her the right? I know it's only a show but the idea of that made me mad. Just because she felt that way doesn't mean that her child will feel the same way. I think she was being over sensitive myself, but that wasn't the only thing that ticked me off. The fact that Janeway did nothing to punish her for her actions with the doctor. "Oh it's okay she's just pregnant and Klingon." If she can do that with the doctors' program what could she do with other programs on the ship? She becomes a liablity then, anyone could use her to over throw the ship using her sensitivity. Sorry this eppy really bothered me.

 

Voyager is growing on me, slowly but surely.

Katy :bow:

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I just watched the eppy where B'lona (sorry about the spelling) found out she was preggers.  Good eppy, but it made me extremely angry.  To think that she wanted to 'change' her child ticked me off big time.  That baby is going to have a totally different life than hers and what gave her the right?

Your feelings are what the episode revolved around. If you recall, Tom was totally against B'Elanna messing with the baby's genes because (I'm paraphrasing Tom Paris here) "you'll not only be changing what she looks like, but WHO SHE IS!!" The doctor and Captain Janeway were against the procedure for the same reasons. As far as Janeway not punishing B'Elanna for reprogramming the doctor, that left me scratching my head, too.

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I agree that it was very irrational and wrong for Torres to do what she did. I'm glad that she didn't accomplish her goal. But I can feel sympathy for her, all the same. I agree, she was being oversensitive, but this was an important subject to her. A very sensitive subject. I know how it feels to be different, to not fit in, and it is that sensitive a subject. It can really make people feel terrible. She just didn't want her daughter to feel what she felt and to go through what she went through. I'm not saying that's a justification, not at all. I can just see why she would try to do it.

 

Some of it was also about the life that she didn't have. She was going to try to live that life through her daughter, which was entirely selfish and wrong. She wanted her daughter to be what she couldn't be; an "ordinary" girl.

 

Torres was very confused. It's a good thing she had Paris around to help her come to her senses.

 

As for not punishing her, I think Janeway understood what Torres was going through. She understood her intentions. She knows Torres too well, and knows that it's not something she would repeat.

 

I think this episode was about what society is coming up with today. I've heard of these "build-your-own-babies" and you can make it so your baby has blue eyes and brown hair and good brains and an athletic body. I don't know if that's possible right now, but I've read about theories. I just think it's wrong. And I think this episode might have been trying to address that issue.

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This really raises a lot of issues - very complicated ones. One no one has addressed so far is that "wrongness" aside as a scientist and Star Fleet officer Torres should have none the dangers of what she was trying to do, the possible unforeseen consequences.

 

As for engineering her child. The reverse of that is done constantly, children born handicapped (minor to severe) by their mothers drug, alcohol and cigarette use during pregnancy. These are people I'd like to see thrown in prison.

 

Now that you mention Torres should have been reduced in rank for what she did - but remember Hollywood produces Star Trek and suggesting someone doesn't have the right to control what's going on inside her body wouldn't sit well with Hollywood.

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As most of you know B'Elanna Torres is my favorite Voyager character. BUT I was also bothered by the behaviors she exhibited in this episode. I felt the writers carried her insecurities a bit to far in this episode. B'Elanna, in spite her being torn apart by many cruelties that she faced during her childhood, in addition to having felt rejected by her father because she looked Klingon..........before this particular episode, she'd never been portrayed as being irrational to the point of "the rediculous." Yes, in my opinion in this episode, she was definitely caring things a bit too far. She was completely out of control in this episode. She was driven to the point that she could have harmed her unborn child, as well as put the entire ship in danger. Pregnant or not ,there should have been a serious reprimand. But again the writer's of this episode I fault. They made B'Elanna look like a really bad human being, star fleet officer, and mother. They made the Captain and Chakotay look incompetant. They had Kim almost siding with B'Elanna during the early part of the episode.......................Nope, I thought this was one of the worst episodes I'd seen in a while.............But Me Maw, if you get a chance to see some of the early episodes of Voyager, you'll get a better understanding of a lot of B'Elanna's issues. Yes, she is a highly charged, emotional individual, with many unresolved insecurities. But overall, she's competant, caring and a nice person..........not like she seemd in that episode :)

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One of the things I love about Trek is how it's willing to explore today's issues-- in the far future. The whole "designer baby" episode was pretty annoying, however-- I still can't understand why B'lanna wasn't punished for the whole Doctor-reprogramming bit.

I watched this with a very young cousin (who isn't much of a Trekkie)-- guess what he said. "Wouldn't they have better birth control or something, if it's the future?" :dude:

That brings something to mind-- if it is the future, why haven't they managed to resolve the designer baby thing once and for all by then (as in, before the show started)?

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As most of you know B'Elanna Torres is my favorite Voyager character.  BUT I was also bothered by the behaviors she exhibited in this episode.  I felt the writers carried her insecurities a bit to far in this episode.  B'Elanna, in spite her being torn apart by many cruelties that she faced during her childhood, in addition to having felt rejected by her father because she looked Klingon..........before this particular episode, she'd never been portrayed as being irrational to the point of "the rediculous."  Yes, in my opinion in this episode, she was definitely caring things a bit too far.  She was completely out of control in this episode.  She was driven to the point that  she could have harmed her unborn child, as well as put the entire ship in danger.  Pregnant or not ,there should have been a serious reprimand.  But again the writer's of this episode I fault.  They made B'Elanna look like a really bad human being, star fleet officer, and mother.  They made the Captain and Chakotay look incompetant.  They had Kim  almost siding with B'Elanna during the early part of the episode.......................Nope, I thought this was one of the worst episodes I'd seen in a while.............But Me Maw,  if you get a chance to see some of the early episodes of Voyager, you'll get a better understanding of a lot of B'Elanna's issues.  Yes, she is a highly charged, emotional individual, with many unresolved insecurities.  But overall, she's competant, caring  and a nice person..........not like she seemd in that episode :dude:

I really think one needs to put theirselves in her position, what would you do if you were the mother of an unborn child and the doctor say that the childs nose would be as long as Cerno De Bursach (french film, may of misspelled). I am sure that most of you would say, yes I would leave that child alone becuase I would love him/her, nonetheless if they didnt even have a nose at all. Now think of this situation, we have technology that has the ability to reconfigure that nose into a normal sized one, and the procedure is at least 95% successful, wouldnt you jump at the chance for your child to live a normal life, without ridicule? I being a man, might not know the feeling a mother has for her child, but I do know what it is like to be ridiculed as well (maybe not for physical features), but if I had a child that would get ridiculed for years becuase he has an unslightly abnormaility and know they have surgery to alter the appearance to make that child look good, I would take that chance, not just for me and the love of my child, but for my child to have the opportunity to look like everyone else, normal and feeling that he can be apart of society.

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I haven't been online much this week at all. :lol: I'm glad my topic has inspired some to comment. My problem with 'altering' a baby is that the individuality of the child would then be gone and the 'color' of life would go. (not meaning race.) Just because a child isn't up to someones' standards of 'good looking', or you are afraid they will be ridiculed in school because of their looks, isn't a reason for alteration. I have been around 'handicapped', or if you prefer 'retarded' children, or even the 'unlovely' and they have given me the most joy, and I don't mean happiness, I mean joy. They have been the sweetest, most tender people I've ever met. The reason, I think, is because they're okay with the way they look and love themselves the way they are. I would take a room full of the 'handicapped' or 'unlovely' to a room full of Tyra Banks. (Not meaning her personally, just the 'magazine perfect' image.)

I was the 'odd man out' so to speak, in school and I learned that everyone is 'ugly' in some way or another and no one is perfect. I wouldn't have wanted my mother to alter me; because then I wouldn't be who I am. Hitler tried to make a 'perfect race' and that didn't work. Individuals need to be who they are, and it's just wrong to change someone else, even if it is your own child. Their life will be totally different than yours. It builds who they are not what they look like. I know I'm probably opening a can of worms....

And I am watching the early Voyagers and I do like B'ELanna very much but this eppy really bothered me, that's why I posted. Just wanted to get it off my chest I guess. I thought her family was trying to make her a part by teasing about the bugs. What boy doesn't like to terrorize a girl? Especially if she screams like one! :) They just wanted to see her reaction is all. And if she hasn't grown up to realize that's all it was, then I guess, she hasn't grown up at all, and she's stuck in her childhood with all of those 'ugly feelings' of childhood. Just my PO. Love yourself for who you are, not for what you look like to someone else.

Katy :dude:

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B'Elanna was doing much more than altering the child's looks. She was playing around with the child's DNA. While the end result she was looking for was to change the way she looked-more "Human" and less "Klingon"-DNA are the building blocks for not only the way we look, but how intelligent we are and "who we are." That was Tom Paris' biggest objection. B'Elanna was trying to do more than a little pre natal plastic surgery.

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Well, mothers are ready to do a lot of things to avoid pain to their child. And sometimes, they are ready to go to extreme...

 

My mother was like that. I wont explain here, but well.

 

It's not about not liking your child, it's about trying to do what you think will help them having a better life.

 

But, It doesn,t mean that I agree with what she did, more with the reasons why she think it

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I agree that it was very irrational and wrong for Torres to do what she did.  I'm glad that she didn't accomplish her goal.  But I can feel sympathy for her, all the same.  I agree, she was being oversensitive, but this was an important subject to her.  A very sensitive subject.  I know how it feels to be different, to not fit in, and it is that sensitive a subject.  It can really make people feel terrible.  She just didn't want her daughter to feel what she felt and to go through what she went through.  I'm not saying that's a justification, not at all.  I can just see why she would try to do it.

 

Some of it was also about the life that she didn't have.  She was going to try to live that life through her daughter, which was entirely selfish and wrong.  She wanted her daughter to be what she couldn't be; an "ordinary" girl.

 

Torres was very confused.  It's a good thing she had Paris around to help her come to her senses.

 

As for not punishing her, I think Janeway understood what Torres was going through.  She understood her intentions.  She knows Torres too well, and knows that it's not something she would repeat.

 

I think this episode was about what society is coming up with today.  I've heard of these "build-your-own-babies" and you can make it so your baby has blue eyes and brown hair and good brains and an athletic body.  I don't know if that's possible right now, but I've read about theories.  I just think it's wrong.  And I think this episode might have been trying to address that issue.

I agree completely with what was said here. I think people even select mates in hopes a guarentee that their baby have certain attributes. This episode, and the idea of "designer babies," is carrying that inclination to the extreme, but is understandable. I do not agree with it though.

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I agree tha Torres was completely aou of line and character in that episode ad I found it annoying. But it's refesshing to see that some characters have rather glaring flaws.

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Whatever the response, it was a terrific episode, IMO...one of the most personal, and moving eps of later seasons of my fave show....

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I liked the episode, I thought it was a good way to show her coming to terms with being part Klingon and I thought it was good to strengthen the relationship between her and Tom.

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Precisely, VGB.

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What if B'elana decided to abort the baby instead of merely tinkering with it's DNA? Would the doctor or the Captain have had any say in the matter?

 

B'elana should have been disciplined for unauthorized tinkering with the doctor's program. I don't think it mattered what the reason was.

 

Of course all expectations at that point were that the kid would have lived her entire life in the Delta quadrant anyway.

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