Sign in to follow this  
MANVERU

Worf's Sash

Recommended Posts

well they wern't really offcial allies. mainly they never formally accepted to the federation until after sisko joins the prophets, kira takes over in his place, all taking place in the star trek ds9 novel: unity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well they wern't really offcial allies. mainly they never formally accepted to the federation until after sisko joins the prophets, kira takes over in his place, all taking place in the star trek ds9 novel: unity

From what I can tell, you must really love that book. :roflmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm probably wrong cause its been awhile since I've seen it but didn't Bajor join the Federation in the series finale?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no, they were picking a new kai by the series finale, but, during the sixth season, sisko had bajor pull it's application from the federation because of impending doom from the pah-wraiths and the dominon. and gummy i do love that book. shakkar didn't offically sign in bajor to be a part of the federaton about 4 months after sisko left with the prophets. the federation were only allies to a certain extent. meaning the federation were the only ones that had the power to stop the cardassians, klingons, or even the ferengi from taking over bajor. not to mention seenig how bajor was still a somewhat under-developed species, (because they had no technology of their own) the federation couldn't meddle in bajoran affairs. but they could only assit if anything happened on the station, or if they were threatened from like the jem'hedar or the cardassians.

Edited by tj_hawk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the Bajorans had warp drive, which means the Federation was free to offer other technological assistance - which they did. Even if the did not have warp power of their own they had been exposed to races - Cardassian, Ferengi, and probably a multitude of others - who did have this power so it was hardly a secret to them. Besides, how many Bajorans had served on DS9 or the Defiant as part of the crew?

 

But my point was that when Worf joined Starfleet the Empire and Federation had been allies for 2 generations, since The Undiscovered Country. (2 generations is based on Col. Worf, Worf's grandfather, defending Kirk and McCoy in that trial.) They weren't part of the Federation but they had been allies for a long time. It is common for allied powers to authorize their military to wear awards granted by other allies, so Worf got to keep his sash.

 

When Ro was assigned to the Enterprise the Federation and Bajorans were not allies yet. It gradually got more common for Bajorans to join Starfleet but this alone did not make them political allies. So Riker was justified in having Ro remove the earing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the Bajorans had warp drive, which means the Federation was free to offer other technological assistance - which they did. Even if the did not have warp power of their own they had been exposed to races - Cardassian, Ferengi, and probably a multitude of others - who did have this power so it was hardly a secret to them. Besides, how many Bajorans had served on DS9 or the Defiant as part of the crew?

 

The Bajorans had developed warp ships by Earth's 14th century or so. Albeit through "sail" ships rather than warp reactors, but warp is warp.

 

But my point was that when Worf joined Starfleet the Empire and Federation had been allies for 2 generations, since The Undiscovered Country. (2 generations is based on Col. Worf, Worf's grandfather, defending Kirk and McCoy in that trial.) They weren't part of the Federation but they had been allies for a long time. It is common for allied powers to authorize their military to wear awards granted by other allies, so Worf got to keep his sash.

 

I'd say barely one generation. In "Yesterday's Enterprise" is was implied that the Enterprise-C coming to the aid of the Klingons was one of the events that lead to an actual alliance. Before that, between the time of TUC and the Ent-C, I'd say it was more of a neutral relationship. They weren't at war, but they weren't friends, either.

 

When Ro was assigned to the Enterprise the Federation and Bajorans were not allies yet. It gradually got more common for Bajorans to join Starfleet but this alone did not make them political allies. So Riker was justified in having Ro remove the earing.

 

Riker was justified no matter what. Earrings were against regulations. Or, at least, under the captain's discretion. As for Worf's sash, it's entirely possible that Worf was given special consideration, since he was the only Klingon serving in Starfleet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Bajorans had developed warp ships by Earth's 14th century or so. Albeit through "sail" ships rather than warp reactors, but warp is warp.

 

Actually, up to the time Sisko and son made that trip the solar ship theory was just that, a theory. At any rate they no longer used sails. Even if it weren't for this, however, we can infer that the Bajorans certainly knew about warp because of their extensive contact with warp civilizations.

 

I'd say barely one generation. In "Yesterday's Enterprise" is was implied that the Enterprise-C coming to the aid of the Klingons was one of the events that lead to an actual alliance. Before that, between the time of TUC and the Ent-C, I'd say it was more of a neutral relationship. They weren't at war, but they weren't friends, either.

 

OK, one generation then. It isn't important to my argument.

 

Riker was justified no matter what. Earrings were against regulations. Or, at least, under the captain's discretion. As for Worf's sash, it's entirely possible that Worf was given special consideration, since he was the only Klingon serving in Starfleet.

 

For all we know Ro was the only Bajoran in Starfleet at the time (although that Bajoran who was on the flight team with Wesley was probably a cadet by then). But being the only one shouldn't make a difference either way.

 

However, Worf's sashes did have military significance within the Empire. We know this because as Worf changed positions and ranks his sash also changed (although sometimes they were subtle changes.) As such it could have been considered part of his uniform.

 

The only thing that would make my argument fall apart is he wore the sash during that brief skirmish with the Klingons on DS9. Even here, however, there are justifications for it:

 

1) The battle was very brief.

2) Even though the Empire had declared war on the Federation the Federation had not formally declared war on the Empire and still considered the Kittomer Accords to be valid.

3) No one on the Klingon side said "Worf, take that thing off."

 

By the way, by "allies" I mean more than general friendly relations. I mean there was an actual treaty. The United States is allied with Canada, England, Germany, etc because of NATO. The Federation and Empire were allied because of the Kittomer Accords. No such treaty existed between the Federation and Bajor. The whole reason Ro was brought on the Enterprise in the first place was so Bajorans could negotiate with a Bajoran. If they had a treaty it wouldn't matter who they negotiated with. Even before Worf's discomindation the Klingons negotiated with Picard, not Worf.

Edited by Lt. Van Roy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, up to the time Sisko and son made that trip the solar ship theory was just that, a theory. At any rate they no longer used sails. Even if it weren't for this, however, we can infer that the Bajorans certainly knew about warp because of their extensive contact with warp civilizations.

 

Except at the end, when Sisko and Jake ended up in Cardassian space, Duakt (I think it was Dukat) showed up and said that their flight "just happened to coincide with" a centuries-old crash site of a Bajoran sail-ship on Cardassia Prime.

 

For all we know Ro was the only Bajoran in Starfleet at the time (although that Bajoran who was on the flight team with Wesley was probably a cadet by then). But being the only one shouldn't make a difference either way.

 

Ensign Ro is the first Bajoran that we know of. That doesn't mean that she's the first in Starfleet. Whereas with Worf, it is stated explicitly.

 

However, Worf's sashes did have military significance within the Empire. We know this because as Worf changed positions and ranks his sash also changed (although sometimes they were subtle changes.) As such it could have been considered part of his uniform.

 

Normally, I would agree with this, but there's still one thing that bothers me... why is it that we never saw any other Klingon with a similar sash?

 

The only thing that would make my argument fall apart is he wore the sash during that brief skirmish with the Klingons on DS9. Even here, however, there are justifications for it:

 

1) The battle was very brief.

2) Even though the Empire had declared war on the Federation the Federation had not formally declared war on the Empire and still considered the Kittomer Accords to be valid.

3) No one on the Klingon side said "Worf, take that thing off."

 

4) Worf had made vows to Starfleet, much in the way modern military troops make vows to whatever branch of the military they serve in.

 

By the way, by "allies" I mean more than general friendly relations. I mean there was an actual treaty. The United States is allied with Canada, England, Germany, etc because of NATO. The Federation and Empire were allied because of the Kittomer Accords. No such treaty existed between the Federation and Bajor. The whole reason Ro was brought on the Enterprise in the first place was so Bajorans could negotiate with a Bajoran. If they had a treaty it wouldn't matter who they negotiated with. Even before Worf's discomindation the Klingons negotiated with Picard, not Worf.

 

I understand that. I just disgree.

Edited by WishfireOmega

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

because like any bajoran starfleet officer, they had to respect his beliefs.

Respecting the beliefs of others doesn't necessarily mean the acceptance of the customs of others as we learned in the 4th season episode Reunion. This is what Picard said to Worf at the end of the episode (after Worf had killed Duras):

 

Picard: The Enterprise crew currently includes representatives from thirteen planets, Mister Worf. They each have their individual beliefs and values and I respect them all. But every member of the crew has chosen to serve Starfleet. If anyone cannot perform his duties because of the demands of his society, he must resign.
Edited by Takara_Soong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, the only bajorian officer serving on the defiant was kira. but that was only because she was the first officer until worf came along and took over the first officer duties. the bajorains stopped using the solar sail ships as far as anyone knows. i mean they never once stated they had warp ships. all they had were impluse ships. either for transports or military purposes. as for no other klingons wearing sashes, but as far as i can remember gowron taking power of the high concil, i've noticed in the begining of part 2 of that episode, his brother kurn also wore one. as for any other klingon for that matter, unless they were a head of the house, or a goverment officer, they did not wear a sash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this