No Saluting?

[Sgt. Phaserman 0]

Alright, one thing I've noticed only since joining the Military is that in Star Trek, they never salute. I've always wondered why this is. A salute is a time-honored tradition of showing respect for a superior commissioned officer, yet Starfleet, based on a Military organisation, does not salute. Even the Coast Gaurd of today, the closest service to Starfleet in mission, salutes, so why not Starfleet?

 

One reason that may be stated is a lack of covers (Hats). Normally in the Military, if covered or under arms, a junior person salutes a Superior Commissioned officer when passing. In Starfleet, there are ways to work the saluting regulations to make it work.

 

And another thing, why is it we only see a UFP flag in places like the Academy or HQ? Shouldn't there be a flag in each Transporter room, and set up near the primary docking point when a ship is docked (EI Establish the Quarterdeck), and in the Shuttle Bay? Navy Regulations state that when a person comes aboard a vessel, they salute the Flag, then the Officer of the Day, and say "Request Permission to Come Aboard, Sir", yet this formality is also ignored. I just can't help but wonder why...

[MrPsychic 1]

Sometimes they do request it, mostly as a formality. I never noticed why they don't salute, but perhaps it would be redundant? I don't know, I'm not a military man myself.

[youbroughtheryouRiker 2]

It'd make boring television to see all that saluting. That's why it worked too, that so little of it went on during M*A*S*H.

 

But a Trek explanation could be that maybe saluting is considered an offensive gesture in some cultures, and the United Federation of Planets didn't want to offend any planet's culture.

[Odie 0]

If they follow the Navy as it appears there is an explanation for the lack of salutes and quarterdeck.

 

First Starfleet, and told many different times, is not a military origination. Since saluting a time honor military tradition they would not want to do it, because it would give an image of being military. Also it could be they are uncovered and inside the ship. Today's Navy no one wears the cover in doors and salutes. When the ship is underway you don't have wear your cover unless you are standing a watch and only salute when you went to the Officer of Deck to do a watch turn over. That only applies to watches that are on the bridge.

 

Here is the explanation about the lack of a Quarterdeck on the ship. Yet again another military tradition. Any appearance of military Starfleet wants to avoid at all cost. Here is another explanation that comes from the Navy. When the ship is underway there is no formal Quarterdeck. Only when the ship is inport there is a Quarterdeck. When someone really important comes on or off the ship the are greeted the chain of command and side boys on the flight deck or by ready launch boats, but there is not Quarterdeck and no flags (it is not safe if they did have it there) are flown on the flight deck. Expect the American flag that is flown from the yard arm.

 

I have heard people asking permission to come on board to ship in Starfleet, but its not taken as formal as it taken now in the military.

[Sgt. Phaserman 0]

Good points, Odie. And it does appear that starships in Starfleet spend alot more time deployed than In port anyways.

[APW 0]

I've often wondered about these questions myself.

 

I know in my fan fiction, Starfleet tends to be far more military than in the canon.

In one of the TNG novels I have ("Encounter at Farpoint"), I recall Picard being uncomfortable when Data (was it Data or Yar? :angry: ) saluted him. He felt it made the 'Fleet feel military, when he preferred to think of it as scientific.

 

Starfleet's lack of enthusiasm for it's military role probably was responsible for the 1st Class butt kicking the Dominion handed the Federation early in the Dominion War. You'd think after the various Borg incursions and Dominion Conflict (not to mention counter-terrorism ops against the Maquis), Starfleet would be just a shade more militaristic by the 2380's.

 

If I were a Starfleet officer, I'd probably go on a power trip and make my subord's salute me. :(

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

They had ranks, orders that had to be obeyed, uniforms, tactical systems and weaponry, etc. I don't know whatever gave Starfleet the idea they were not military but it seems to me that they were.

[MrPsychic 1]

The Federations main theme is to "Seek out and find new species and new civilizations" They have weapons in case what they find isn't as friendly as we are.

[Dark Reality 0]

Hmm. I do not fully understand Quarterdeck.

 

But while the United Federation of Planets is not a military, but rather a federation, a coalition, Starfleet (which isn't UFP) is military, and based strongly on the Navy. Most Trek characters don't really seem like the soldiers of today, but I think that's because they're "so much more evolved". Each of them is something else first, except for Worf, who is first and foremost a Klingon warrior. Picard is a sailor, Data and Geordi are scientists... they all have other roles that they play, but they do follow a chain of command... I think they're the closest thing Earth has to a military in the 24th century.

 

I would like to believe that saluting would be offensive to some cultures and is thus not used, as suggested in post #3. Consider the Vulcan "Live Long and Prosper" salute - Vulcans use it to greet each other and when departing, but you didn't see Tuvok doing it all the time on Voyager... presumably Spock on TOS used it as infrequently. It's like in ST6:TUC, "not all species keep their genitals in the same place"; just as Kirk wouldn't expect that to have been anything other than a kneecap, perhaps the salute we know today means something offensive in another culture.

 

And for the record I haven't been in the military, excuse me if I implied otherwise.

[Sgt. Phaserman 0]

I've often wondered about these questions myself.

 

I know in my fan fiction, Starfleet tends to be far more military than in the canon.

In one of the TNG novels I have ("Encounter at Farpoint"), I recall Picard being uncomfortable when Data (was it Data or Yar? :angry: ) saluted him. He felt it made the 'Fleet feel military, when he preferred to think of it as scientific.

 

Starfleet's lack of enthusiasm for it's military role probably was responsible for the 1st Class butt kicking the Dominion handed the Federation early in the Dominion War. You'd think after the various Borg incursions and Dominion Conflict (not to mention counter-terrorism ops against the Maquis), Starfleet would be just a shade more militaristic by the 2380's.

 

If I were a Starfleet officer, I'd probably go on a power trip and make my subord's salute me. :(

 

If I were the Secretary of Starfleet, or the equivelent, I'd have pressed the council to make some sweeping changes after the Dominion War. I'd have seperated Starfleet into two different parts: A more Military part, to defend the Federation, a part more similar to the Coast Guard (Which is what Starfleet is like already), and a Marine Corps.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

Uh... that was 3 parts Sgt.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

Van Roy, he's a Marine....Muscles Are Required, Intelligence Not Expected. Sir.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

No, its My *buttocks* Rides In Navy Equipment, Sir!

 

Of course you know what is 100 yards long and has an IQ of 30: A platoon of Marines on patrol.

Edited March 10, 2006 by Lt. Van Roy

[Jim Phaserman 0]

Back to the topic, before it turns into a USMC Slamthread...in the Sim I am in, the Eros Sim, we actually worked in a way that would require personnel to salute. Upon meeting a superior commissioned officer for the first time each day, you salute, as well as when reporting in to a superior officer, especially reporting to a new duty station. You don't salute during battle, real or simulated, or during exercise (in the Holodeck or gym), or when in the Ship's lounges. When a ship is docked at a Starbase or space station, A quarterdeck is established at the primary point of entry to the ship. Most of these, though, are only generally put into effect aboard starships assigned to the Strategic and Tactical Operations section of Starfleet (Coincidentally, headed by myself.)

[ussacclaim 0]

The saluting being offensive to other culters has some plausability.

 

I remember a scene in "In a Mirror Darkly" where Archer or Forrest or both were walking down a corridor and there were three guards there. As they passed each guard, that guard would do a salute thing I beleive.

 

That alternate universe was more military-oriented when Starfleet was concerned as well.

[Wishfire 2]

Here's my thoughts on the topic...

 

Starfleet, while based on the military, isn't exactly a military organization, though they do see combat from time to time. However, they are mostly a sciencific/exploration organization, therefore a lot less formal that the military. It seems to me that Starfleet only borrows certain aspects from the military, such as ship designations and personel rankings. Beyond that, though, they simply aren't military.

 

It could also be that they have actively tried to part from military traditions, such as the salute, due to Earth's largely militaristic past.

 

As for displaying the UFP flag, well, the ships are all the property of Starfleet, which predates the UFP. And the ships do display the Starfleet insignia. For example, the Galaxy-class ships have the Starfleet insignia on the top of each nacelle, as well as on the bottom of the stardrive section. Though I do believe that they should also bear the UFP flag somewhere, much like every modern ship, both military and non-military, bears the flag of it's nation of origin.

 

Concerning the Mirror Universe, like ussacclaim already stated, those ships are much more military that UFP ships. Hence everyone saluting the captain and the Terran Empire being displayed everywhere.