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athena28

Question about 'Mark Twain' eps.

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I was watching the 'Mark Twain' eps. the other night & I have a question...It sure seemed to me as if there was a implication that Picard & Guinan had some type of intimate relationship that I don't recall being mentioned, really, before or after these eps. Now what I mean by intimate I'm not exactly sure. I know they always had a special relationship where she was granted liberties even his Bridge Crew wasn't but in these eps. there were glances, touches & things said (and unsaid) that implied more. Am I nuts?

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You are not crazy. I, too, noticed the same things.

 

Perhaps we are to assume that Picard and Guinan shared an intimate relationship that did not involve any sort of physical love, but more of a soul-to-soul connection. Who knows.

 

I thought it was kind of weird, too. TNG was forever dropping the ball on Picard's relationships ... nothing ever got resolved in any of the major ones -- from Beverly to Vash and all the women in between.

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There was an indication of a past relationship before "Time's Arrow". I think it was in the season 3 episode "Booby Trap" where Geordi is talking to Guinan about male-female relationships and Guinan mentions that she is attracted to bald men. Geordi is a bit surprised and asks why, Guinan says "Because a bald man was kind to me once when I was in trouble".

 

It also seems to me that there were other indications of their special friendship in previous and later episodes.

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I never really percieved it as an intimate or even past intimate relationship between Guinan and Picard. It just seemed like a really deep friendship. A friendship where they did not need words to communicate what they were feeling to each other. They just understood each other very well. Not to mention their paths have crossed at least twice (in 19th century, as well as the current time, plus her echo crossed paths with him in the Nexus).

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There was an indication of a past relationship before "Time's Arrow". I think it was in the season 3 episode "Booby Trap" where Geordi is talking to Guinan about male-female relationships and Guinan mentions that she is attracted to bald men. Geordi is a bit surprised and asks why, Guinan says "Because a bald man was kind to me once when I was in trouble".

 

It also seems to me that there were other indications of their special friendship in previous and later episodes.

We know from Time's Arrow that Picard had not met Guinan until she came aboard the Enterprise but Guinan had met Picard in San Francisco. Although it couldn't have been planned, Guinan's comment to Geordi works perfectly with Time's Arrow. The bald man in the past who was kind to Guinan most likely was Picard when they were in the cave at the Presidio in Time's Arrow.

 

I agree with Yillara. I don't think their relationship was a physical one but a spiritual one.

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Although it couldn't have been planned, Guinan's comment to Geordi works perfectly with Time's Arrow.

 

It could have been planned if Time's Arrow was already in the works or planned out or it could be that they wrote Time's Arrow with that line in mind.

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Although it couldn't have been planned, Guinan's comment to Geordi works perfectly with Time's Arrow.

 

It could have been planned if Time's Arrow was already in the works or planned out or it could be that they wrote Time's Arrow with that line in mind.

 

Time's Arrow was the cliffhanger from season 5/6 while, as you said, Geordi's comments were from season 3. TPTB hadn't originally even planned on doing a cliffhanger at the end of season 5 but did because there were rumours that TNG wasn't coming back for a season 6 because of DS9's launch and they wanted to show those rumours to be wrong. TPTB do admit that none of them remembered that Guinan had told Wesley in The Child that she hadn't met Picard until she came on board the Enterprise but that is easily explainable as Guinan lying because she couldn't say she met Picard in the past. :dontgetit:

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Although it couldn't have been planned, Guinan's comment to Geordi works perfectly with Time's Arrow.

 

It could have been planned if Time's Arrow was already in the works or planned out or it could be that they wrote Time's Arrow with that line in mind.

 

Time's Arrow was the cliffhanger from season 5/6 while, as you said, Geordi's comments were from season 3. TPTB hadn't originally even planned on doing a cliffhanger at the end of season 5 but did because there were rumours that TNG wasn't coming back for a season 6 because of DS9's launch and they wanted to show those rumours to be wrong. TPTB do admit that none of them remembered that Guinan had told Wesley in The Child that she hadn't met Picard until she came on board the Enterprise but that is easily explainable as Guinan lying because she couldn't say she met Picard in the past. :dontgetit:

That's true, but writers tend to work on story ideas well in advance and in some cases for quite some time. I'm not saying that was the case here, but I wouldn't say it was entirely unplanned either. I have to think there was some "planning" there even if it was in hindsight when "Time's Arrow" was being written.

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I never really percieved it as an intimate or even past intimate relationship between Guinan and Picard. It just seemed like a really deep friendship. A friendship where they did not need words to communicate what they were feeling to each other. They just understood each other very well. Not to mention their paths have crossed at least twice (in 19th century, as well as the current time, plus her echo crossed paths with him in the Nexus).

 

This is very much how I always understood it as well.

 

I agree there are some cases which were planned; among them are Planet Archer (:dontgetit:) and a "bald head" meaning Picard. She didn't use names because she was hiding the secret of a very important upcoming mission she'd waited alooooong time for.

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I never saw it as romantic, but one that was deep enough to where they were comfortable around each other in close proximities. I also think part of it has to do with Goldberg's attempt to portray Guinan as stand-offishly friendly and blatantly esoteric.

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I think I kind of agree with the intimate but not physically intimate relationship thing (see my first post). However, I forgot the other references re: bald men. I appreciate your responses as it makes things a bit clearer for me.

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Although it couldn't have been planned, Guinan's comment to Geordi works perfectly with Time's Arrow.

 

It could have been planned if Time's Arrow was already in the works or planned out or it could be that they wrote Time's Arrow with that line in mind.

 

Time's Arrow was the cliffhanger from season 5/6 while, as you said, Geordi's comments were from season 3. TPTB hadn't originally even planned on doing a cliffhanger at the end of season 5 but did because there were rumours that TNG wasn't coming back for a season 6 because of DS9's launch and they wanted to show those rumours to be wrong. TPTB do admit that none of them remembered that Guinan had told Wesley in The Child that she hadn't met Picard until she came on board the Enterprise but that is easily explainable as Guinan lying because she couldn't say she met Picard in the past. :blink:

That's true, but writers tend to work on story ideas well in advance and in some cases for quite some time. I'm not saying that was the case here, but I wouldn't say it was entirely unplanned either. I have to think there was some "planning" there even if it was in hindsight when "Time's Arrow" was being written.

 

 

It could also be that whomever was writing, or at least helping, with Time's Arrow recalled those lines between Geordi and Guinan, and suggested that they would work will with the script. For all we know, they originally planned on having Riker stay behind with Guinan, and after being reminded of those lines, decided to switch Rker with Picard. In such a case, it would've been easy enough.

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It could also be that whomever was writing, or at least helping, with Time's Arrow recalled those lines between Geordi and Guinan, and suggested that they would work will with the script. For all we know, they originally planned on having Riker stay behind with Guinan, and after being reminded of those lines, decided to switch Rker with Picard. In such a case, it would've been easy enough.

Joe Menosky wrote Time's Arrow Part I and Jeri Taylor wrote Part II. Neither was involved in the writing of Booby Trap (or even hired at the time). I can't really see how they would have thought of it. Whether any of TPTB remembered it and that was the reason why Guinan was written into the story in the first place, who knows. I can't find any reference material that indicates that's the case though.

 

It wouldn't have made sense for Riker to stay behind based on Picard's already established relationship with Guinan.

 

Note: Edited to correct episode reference.

Edited by Takara_Soong

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I think the whole Guinan-Picard relationship would have been in the writers guide, so any stories written that would involve Picard and Guinan would likely contain some references to that relationship and it's not unlikely that references to past encounters would be made also. I think that "Booby Trap" is one of those references, whether or not that reference was intended to be a reference to Picard and Guinan in San Francisco or not is another thing but I don't think it's out of the question that parts of "Time's Arrow" were written with that line in mind.

 

It would be an interesting question to pose to the writers though.

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I'd never even considered a previous relationship between Guinan and Picard until I read this and to be honest I still think it's very unlikely. They really don't suit each other, just a deep friendship and no more. True though - it would be an interesting question to pose to the writers.

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I've never perceived any context from TNG to imply that their relationship was ever anything more than plutonic.

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