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Dark Reality

Gonna start watching DS9 all the way through

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With season 4 you are really going to start getting into it now. "The Way of the Warrior" is a great 2 parter and is the first "bald" sisko episode as well as Worf's first episode, it's there also that we meet one of my favorite Klingons... General Martok.

 

After "The Way of the Warrior" comes an episode that many have said is one of the very best Trek episodes, "The Visitor". It surely is a very emotional and stirring episode. I believe you should enjoy it.

 

"Hippocratic Oath" is an important Jem'Hadar episode, and a very good one also. "Indiscretion" is a really good episode that judging from your past statements I know you'll like, a sort of second part to that comes later in the season in "Return to Grace". Both great, and important episodes.

 

"Little Green Men" is a great episode that I know you'll have fun watching.

 

"Our Man Bashir" is a really fun episode, I even made a tribute video based on it named "Bashir, Julian Bashir".

 

"Homefront" & "Paradise Lost" is a good 2 parter, never a favorite of mine but I always enjoy it.

 

You know, looking through the list of season 4 episodes there all really great episodes. Seasons 4 through 7 are just awesome and may be the best 4 seasons in all of Trek.

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Cardassians are all the same. None will ever be an Okay Guy. But that's my opinion as a Bajoran.

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As a Vulcan, I must point out that this statement is illogical, for the most part because of the operative word "all"; words like "all" or "none", "always" or "never" often take away from the credibility of a statement, as there is often an exception. :dude:

 

I'm back to disliking Ferengi... how they would sell out their family and friends... and how Quark and Rom expect their mother of all people to not wear clothes. Females one's own age I can understand, even in a chauvanistic society, but to extend it to the very young and/or the very old is kind of sick... that whole episode "Family Business" grated on my nerves. Least favorite so far. :dude:

 

My girlfriend's been reading this topic (I linked to it in my sig on my own board) and she's never been into sci-fi, but says DS9 sounds interesting. She hadn't seen any of the Star Wars films until I asked her out to see Sith, so she rented Phantom and Clones... She's waiting for me to move in to see the original trilogy. So maybe she and I can watch TOS, then TNG together... and then DS9 and Voyager again (first time for her). Though this wouldn't be at the speed I'm watching them now... maybe one every night or two, so it could be a couple years before she sees it all, but she's certainly interested (and I wouldn't mind going through DS9 and Voyager again, just as long as it's been a while).

 

3x24 "Shakaar" was really good, I must say. :dude: Good Kira episode, really... being that Kira hasn't been too impressive (IMHO) before this (aside from "Second Skin") made it really cool. And Kai Winn gets a little of what's coming to her. As gamers would put it, "pwnt!" :dude:

 

O'Brien and Quark had been discussing the Holosuites, and it would seem that Starfleet personnell have full run of them. I'd think Quark would have a problem with that if he had paying customers, but it's possible Quark only leases them certain times in the evening and Starfleet people respect that and use them at other times. As for the drinks and food, I've been thinking... the Federation is a trade association as well. Even if they don't have money, they still barter goods and services, I would think... it's possible the Federation provides Quark with some of his inventory, excess food or stuff they allocate him and the other merchants in exchange for accomodating the Starfleet people on board.

 

3x25 "Facets", another great episode, this time a Dax episode. We (sort of) meet Curzon (via Odo), as well as all the others including the insane Hannibal Lecter-esque one before Curzon... through Ben Sisko. And you just gotta love how Ben shuts Curzon up when Curzon brings up a lady Sisko entertained one night/weekend.

 

Now I'm up to the season finale, 3x26 "The Adversary". Time to meet Dominion Vorta Weyoun... :dude:

 

//edit: Dammit! I read somewhere that The Adversary was the first Weyoun episode... I must have read wrong. Anyway, it was the first Captain Sisko episode and the last Commander Sisko episode (sort of). :dude: Good stuff... Now that "Way of the Warrior" is looking pretty tempting. And who knows, I just might watch a sixth episode if "The Visitor" is that good. (So far my favorites are The Inner Light (TNG) and Blink of an Eye (Voyager). The DS9 episode I thought was the fan favorite was 6x19 "In the Pale Moonlight", one I've been looking forward to since I heard about it.

Edited by Dark Reality

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I really liked "Family Business", the thing that really struck me one of the first times I watched that episode was that it was an episode almost entirely about an alien race. There's very little of Starfleet in it.

 

It does seem odd that they expect their mother to be naked but you have to put aside human morals and upbringing and think of it from the perspective of an alien race and how their society developed.

 

Anyway, in a way you have already met Weyoun now, the actor that played Liquidator Brunt is the same actor that plays Weyoun. (There's even one episode where he plays both characters).

 

As for the first Weyoun episode, that's "To The Death". An excellent episode near the end of the 4th season.

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Ah, so I have a ways to go before I reach the Weyoun episodes.

 

"The Visitor" was pretty good, but is nowhere near my previously stated favorites. It's amazing how they can make an episode like that which completely exists outside of the normal realm of Star Trek. Simply amazing. A good episode, but not the best. :dude:

 

"The Way of the Warrior" on the other hand... Damn, that was awesome. The space battles. The Klingons. Worf. The changed theme music. I never noticed they changed the music. DS9 is getting really good. :dude:

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Definitely great to see that your enjoying this so much.

 

You know VBG I think we may end up with another Niner after this, lol.

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Ah, so I have a ways to go before I reach the Weyoun episodes.

 

"The Visitor" was pretty good, but is nowhere near my previously stated favorites.  It's amazing how they can make an episode like that which completely exists outside of the normal realm of Star Trek.  Simply amazing.  A good episode, but not the best. :naughty:

 

"The Way of the Warrior" on the other hand... Damn, that was awesome.  The space battles.  The Klingons.  Worf.  The changed theme music.  I never noticed they changed the music.  DS9 is getting really good. :lol:

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Your comment on how they made "The Visitor" outside the realm of Trek is exactly what my thoughts were on "Family Business". The entire episode is on a non-Federation planet and is centered on non-Starfleet aliens. I found those kinds of episodes to be extremely interesting.

 

Season 6's "Honor Among Thieves" is much the same way and is an awesome episode.

 

If you liked "The Way of the Warrior" then you're in for 4 seasons of great Trek.

 

 

Definitely great to see that your enjoying this so much.

 

You know VBG I think we may end up with another Niner after this, lol.

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It wouldn't surprise me, it happens all the time when people begin to watch it.

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@ddillard: After this what? I'm not sure at what point... the introduction of the Jem'Hadar? the Defiant? Worf? "The Way of the Warrior".... but at some point I think I crossed into "Ninerhood" or at least I can now admit that DS9>VOY. TNG will always be the one I grew up on... I'd rather watch DS9 than TNG, but I think TNG will always be my favorite for much the same reason TOS is for some.

 

I think (predict) that you guys gave away "Hippocratic Oath" when you said it was a "good Jem'hadar episode". The hippocratic oath is that oath doctors take, known for the last three words: "Do no harm". So from what I know and have read, it sounds like an episode where a JH is injured and Bashir treats him or doesn't, and his oath comes into play... but that's just a guess.

 

Seeing Worf for the first time on DS9 was awesome. He wasn't and isn't my favorite character on TNG, but IMHO he's the best Klingon they made and a great addition to the station, That he's going to hook up with Jadzia is practically a given, considering she likes Klingons and hasn't gotten too attached to anyone yet. (Go Worf!) But I thought he winds up with Troi at some point...?

 

I think the thing about DS9 is you have to watch most if not all of it. If you miss the first episode where he becomes the Emissary and Jadzia Dax is introduced, they show the transplant and all... I think if you miss that one, your experience will suffer for it. Likewise if you miss any of the Kai Opaka, Vedek Bareil, Vedek/Kai Winn episodes, you don't get what's going on with Bajor, and that's really important. There are a lot you can miss and still get 100% of the main story. Episodes like "The Visitor" and "Family Business" can be the best to some people, but I could have skipped them and not missed anything major.

 

Perhaps someone should write up a guide for watching DS9 or Voyager with only watching key episodes that mattered to the main plot. DS9 would have more than Voyager, but it would be neat to see a guide which lists the episodes you must watch, then some which would be helpful, and then a breakdown of episodes by main highlighted character that you can watch (or not watch) if you have a favorite or least favorite character.

 

I like what they did with the theme music... not how they changed it, but rather than have the same monologue in the beginning, they just have a nice musical piece accompanying the visuals. Just the intro, it's hard to decide between DS9 and Voyager. Both have a lot of nice stellar shots, and ship shots. But in Voyager, I felt that there were too many exterior ship shots versus exterior station shots in DS9, so on the rare occasion I watch the intro, it's neat seeing the station close up. And I think the asteroid/meteor flying in is a bit cooler than Voyager going around the sun. And the ending... Voyager going to warp is no different than the same shot in TNG... but DS9 shows the runabout (or is it Defiant) going into the wormhole... slightly better, I think.

 

When you guys watch these, do you watch the intro? If so, do you watch it all the time? If not, how easy or hard is it for you to skip it? Since I'm watching them on the computer, it's just a matter of turning off fullscreen (double clicking) and advancing the video past the intro. Sometimes I over- or undershoot it, but I like to hit it on the final Berman/Piller credit, just before it fades. I wish there were a quick way to tell it to advance just so far... figure out the length of the intro, pause it when the intro is about to start, and simply hop over it.

 

Gonna go watch some more DS9 episodes... Here's hoping for no Lwaxana Troi episodes, as little spoken lines by Rom as possible, some cool battles, and Worf kicking some JH *buttocks*... Oh... watched six of them yesterday... that's a new record. Though I'm not sure how proud I should be of having spent 4.5 hours in front of the computer watching digital video... :naughty: ...oh well, it was fun.

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I think (predict) that you guys gave away "Hippocratic Oath" when you said it was a "good Jem'hadar episode".  The hippocratic oath is that oath doctors take, known for the last three words: "Do no harm".  So from what I know and have read, it sounds like an episode where a JH is injured and Bashir treats him or doesn't, and his oath comes into play... but that's just a guess.

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Not really, just knowing that it's a Jem'Hadar episode doesn't give the plot away. It does have something to do with Bashir but it goes a lot deeper then just helping an injured alien.

 

Seeing Worf for the first time on DS9 was awesome.  He wasn't and isn't my favorite character on TNG, but IMHO he's the best Klingon they made and a great addition to the station,  That he's going to hook up with Jadzia is practically a given, considering she likes Klingons and hasn't gotten too attached to anyone yet.  (Go Worf!)  But I thought he winds up with Troi at some point...?

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No, he never hooked up with Troi. Worf's character grew a whole lot in DS9, it was a great addition to an already great show.

 

I think the thing about DS9 is you have to watch most if not all of it.  If you miss the first episode where he becomes the Emissary and Jadzia Dax is introduced, they show the transplant and all... I think if you miss that one, your experience will suffer for it.  Likewise if you miss any of the Kai Opaka, Vedek Bareil, Vedek/Kai Winn episodes, you don't get what's going on with Bajor, and that's really important.  There are a lot you can miss and still get 100% of the main story.  Episodes like "The Visitor" and "Family Business" can be the best to some people, but I could have skipped them and not missed anything major.

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It's true that not all of the episodes "count" toward the major arcs but you get a lot of character information in them. You learn more about Quark and Rom in "Family Business" that will help make episodes and plot lines make more sense later in the series. Without having "Family Business" then "Business as Usual" or "Ferengi Love Songs" or "The Magnificent Ferengi" or "Profit and Lace" wouldn't make sense because we wouldn't know as much about Ferengi society. So they have their place even though they don't directly support the major arcs.

 

When you guys watch these, do you watch the intro?  If so, do you watch it all the time?  If not, how easy or hard is it for you to skip it?  Since I'm watching them on the computer, it's just a matter of turning off fullscreen (double clicking) and advancing the video past the intro.  Sometimes I over- or undershoot it, but I like to hit it on the final Berman/Piller credit, just before it fades.  I wish there were a quick way to tell it to advance just so far... figure out the length of the intro, pause it when the intro is about to start, and simply hop over it.

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When I watch I'm either watching on the DVD's or on the TiVo. On the DVD's I just hit the chapter advance button and it skips through the opening and goes right to the beginning of the episode. On the TiVo I just fast forward through the opening, commercials and get right to the start of the episode.

 

Gonna go watch some more DS9 episodes... Here's hoping for no Lwaxana Troi episodes, as little spoken lines by Rom as possible, some cool battles, and Worf kicking some JH *buttocks*... Oh... watched six of them yesterday... that's a new record.  Though I'm not sure how proud I should be of having spent 4.5 hours in front of the computer watching digital video... :naughty: ...oh well, it was fun.

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I don't believe you'll see Lwaxana anymore on DS9, she was only in a couple and those were within the first few years. Rom's role grows as the seasons go on, I like him.

 

How did you like "Little Green Men"?

 

As for Worf and the Jem'Hadar just wait till you get to season 5's 2 parter "In Purgatory's Shadow" & "By Inferno's Light". An awesome 2 parter that I know you'll love.

 

As for 4.5 hours, I've had whole weekends where I've watched 10 hours per day lol

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I need to go and get it, but its like $654, which is INSANE for DVD's. The only way i'm gonna get em is if someone buys them for me or gives me them, lol. I guess i'll just have to watch them on TV... With stupid commercials

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I need to go and get it, but its like $654, which is INSANE for DVD's.  The only way i'm gonna get em is if someone buys them for me or gives me them, lol. I guess i'll just have to watch them on TV... With stupid commercials

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You can get the Asian versions for about $250, the boxes and artwork aren't the same as the US versions and all of the writing is in a different language but they play in English (or so I've read).

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$160 for all 7 seasons. $26 for each individual season. And they are in english, but sometimes you have to set the subtitles off because most of the time they automatically play with the episode. At least where I get them from.

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$160 for all 7 seasons. $26 for each individual season. And they are in english, but sometimes you have to set the subtitles off because most of the time they automatically play with the episode. At least where I get them from.

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It would be worth it for anyone that can't afford the regular version to get the Asian sets, provided they work on all DVD players. $26 per season isn't bad at all.

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They work on my old one, my new one, the house old one, the house new one, and my DVD rom.

 

The site itself states:

region free (NTSC) DVD Box Set. It is compatible to any region dvd player

If anyone is interested.... I trust them.

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The boxes and disks look pretty authentic. The season 2+ boxes even have magnetic seals, and each disk is in a plastic sleeve.

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There are special features on seasons 2+, on disk 7 with the last two episodes of the seasons. It's usually some featurettes, a dossier of a crew member here and there, sometimes artwork and Michael Westmore's Aliens featurettes.

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Nothing for season 1 though? That's odd. I'd like to get the "special" special bonus discs that were in the Wal-Mart sets, I've seen them on eBay but didn't bother to bid at the times I saw them.

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Yeah, season 1 has 5 disks. I have no idea why it doesn't have special features.

 

The only thing I don't like is the pictures on the boxes. Seasons 1 and 2 have Picard on them and even on the disks and he was only in one episode of the entire series.

Edited by sea trooper

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The Torrents come with tons of extras. I've never watched any of them, I'll have to someday. Especially the crew dossiers.

 

ds9extras0rn.th.png

 

I only watched one DS9 episode the day before yesterday, and I think that was Hippocratic Oath, because then yesterday I watched four episodes (Indiscretion, Rejoined, Starship Down, and Little Green Men). This morning I watched The Sword of Kahless and Our Man Bashir. So I guess I've been busy. :lol:

 

Yeah, I was wrong about "Hippocratic Oath", but it was still a pretty good episode. I would have liked to see them bring that one Jem'hadar back to DS9.

 

Indiscretion was really good, Kira and Dukat being forced to get along on a rescue mission. I was a little disappointed in one part... ;) ...Kira is asking Dukat about a 13-year-old girl on the passenger manifest, a half-Bajoran, half-Cardassian girl (his daughter, actually), and I'm thinking 13+6=19 (the ship had been "lost" for 6 years), but then we see the girl's actually only 13, so Kira must have already added the 6. :naughty: (That or Paramount was hoping we'd add 13 and 6...) :P

 

Rejoined was pretty good. I thought I read somewhere that they did a same-sex episode of TNG when Roddenberry was alive, but after he passed on, what I read was that they shelved the idea and never went back to it. So even though Dax the symbiont is technically neither gender and Trills are essentially bisexual in nature, but it was still a surprise to see two women kissing on a TV show. Not that I have a problem with it, and I'd think in a utopian future where all prejudices seem to be extinct (within the Federation anyway) it wouldn't matter to them, either. It's just not something I was expecting.

 

Starship Down was good, for a pretty much straight action episode. Defiant vs. two JH ships in a gas planet with no sensors. Kind of like a submarine battle in a movie like The Hunt for Red October.

 

Little Green Men was really good. I don't know if you noticed, or maybe I'm just trippin, but when the Ferengi spoke, it was completely garbled. No telling what they were saying. But when the "Humons" spoke, it seemed like the second to last letter of every word was beeped out, or some other simple edit. I thought I could almost make out what they were saying. Are they suggesting that the Ferengi are smarter than the "Humons" or was I hearing things? Good, funny episode overall.

 

The Sword of Kahless was a good Worf and Dax episode, though no hint of a romance; they and Kor (the Klingon introduced in 2x19 Blood Oath) find the "first" Bat'leth (sp?) used by the first great Klingon warrior, the famed Kahless, and of course they all get greedy over it (Worf and Kor, and some other Klingons who show up). Good ending, but kind of unbelievable. Someone will go back and get it.

 

Our Man Bashir... Nice James Bond tribute. Actually there was a movie called "Our Man Flint", which I haven't seen, but if it's anything like this, then it itself is a Bond tribute, so it's a tribute to a Bond tribute, if not a Bond tribute itself. :P

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All of those were really good episodes, the only one that I would say wasn't as good as the others was "Rejoined", not a bad episode but not a favorite either.

 

Ziyal is 19 in "Indescretion", the actress looks to be around 15 or 16 but she's supposed to be 19. You'll see the difference in the next Ziyal episode "Return to Grace", they used a different actress that looks older.

 

In "Starship Down" did you recognize the alien (the actor) that was with Quark?

 

"Little Green Men" was a brilliant episode, I loved it. In fact I have it on Spike at this very moment.

 

I made a tribute video of "Our Man Bashir" in the video vault, that was a fun one to make. I like that episode a lot too.

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@ddillard: After this what?  I'm not sure at what point... the introduction of the Jem'Hadar? the Defiant? Worf? "The Way of the Warrior".... but at some point I think I crossed into "Ninerhood" or at least I can now admit that DS9>VOY.  TNG will always be the one I grew up on... I'd rather watch DS9 than TNG, but I think TNG will always be my favorite for much the same reason TOS is for some.

 

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I was referring to after you had watched the entire series, as that is usually what happens when someone takes the time to watch them all in order so that they understand the entire story line.

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Oh, OK. I just meant it's already my favorite. :naughty:

 

The girl was 19? She could have passed for 13 and kind of acted it.

 

I didn't recognize the alien with Quark in Starship Down. This guy?

 

I'd been meaning to check out the Video Vault but didn't want to watch any before I completed the series, just in case. Speaking of which, I actually have a DS9 video on my computer, done to "On My Way Home" by Enya. Look for it on filesharing if you have broadband. I don't know what the filename is as I rename most of the files I download for conformity, but a search on Enya videos will probably bring it up. AFAIK there is no official video for that song, so if you see it, that's probably it. The file is 29.5MB, if that helps.

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I didn't recognize the alien with Quark in Starship Down.  This guy?

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James Cromwell.

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I didn't recognize the alien with Quark in Starship Down.  This guy?

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James Cromwell.

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Yep, James Cromwell playes a bunch of characters in Star Trek. One that most will recognize is Zephram Cochran in "First Contact" but he's been in several series as several different aliens.

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Oh, that's interesting. :lol: I didn't realize. I did however realize Tony Todd played the elder Jake Sisko in "The Visitor". My brother and I remember him from his role in Candyman, a scarier-than-most gore/horror flick. When I told my brother that Tony Todd guest-starred on Deep Space Nine, he asked if it was a Halloween special. When I told him what it was, he was a little disappointed. :frusty:

 

I just watched the two parter Homefront and Paradise Lost. The Dominion invade Earth... Or do they? Great episode(s), kind of reminds me of when I read the Jack Ryan series by Tom Clancy (includes Hunt for Red October, Patriot Games, and Clear and Present Danger, excellent movies you may have seen) as they included a lot of political and military drama. :blush: And seeing 24th century San Francisco is always a treat.

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^^Perhaps Ziyal young appearance and small stature could be attributed to her being a prisoner on that planet for 6 years?? Then after she's back with her people, she fills out and becomes healthier?? I'm grasping here. They recast her not once, but twice, as I remember.

 

Tony Todd also plays Kurn, Worf's brother. He was on TNG and you will see him again soon on DS9. He's a great actor ... I really like him and Worf together.

 

I always liked The Visitor ... it's when I really fell in love with Sisko. And it was the first "Jake" episode that I didn't skip.

 

"Rejoined" is at the very bottom of my list.

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You'll enjoy "Return to Grace", that one is coming up soon for you (if you haven't seen it yet). Ziyal, if I recall looks a bit older in this episode.

 

"Sons of Mogh" was a really good episode also, not sure if I quite liked the ending but it was still a good episode.

 

I loved "Bar Association", You mentioned something about not knowing of many good Rom episodes well this is one.

 

"Shattered Mirror" is coming up, which as you might be able to tell is another Mirror Universe episode, one of the best in my opinion. Speaking of the mirror universe I was thinking the other day that it was a shame that we didn't get to see the Founders and Dominion in the Mirror Universe. They were probably like the Federation of "our" universe.

 

You're also getting close to the first Weyoun episode, "To the Death". An excellent episode thatI know you'll like.

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Oh yes! One more flaw in the asian sets... See, sometimes they finish a bit early. Before the credits would even start the episode stops and returns to the menu. The most noticable one is the Paradise Lost one where it ends when Sisko is still in the Admiral's office. I guess it's a pretty big flaw but it only happens to a few episodes. :lol:

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