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Dark Reality

Gonna start watching DS9 all the way through

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OK, WTF?

 

I just watched 2x01 "The Homecoming" and at the end it said "To be continued..." but the next episode is not a "Part II". Is this something DS9 did exclusively, two-or-more-part episodes with different titles rather than part numbers?

 

Interesting... :D

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Oh, this is at least a three-parter. :D "To Be Continued..." at the end of 2x02 "The Circle" as well.

 

Voyager never had any 3+ part episodes, and to my recollection TNG didn't either. Another point for DS9. :heart:

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Yeah, this is the first ever 3 parter in Star Trek, Enterprise did several 3 parters but DS9 was the first. And as Susan_Delgado said, there's some pretty big arcs coming up in future seasons that will span several episodes and in some larger arcs will span a couple of seasons.

 

During the Arcs they will complete the stories of the individual episodes (unless there's a specific "to be continued" episode) but the overall arc will be continued throughout the upcoming episodes and seasons. That's one aspect that I love about DS9, it's not just 176 individual stories. It's 1 story spread out over the course of 176 episodes and 7 years.

 

When you've watched them all and reflect back on the whole series it's like one giant painting that an artist began painting in episode 1 and completed in episode 176.

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The DS9 episode "For The Uniform" is on right now on SkyOneMix.

 

Awesome frickin episode.

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Sisko is the Mack-Daddy :D

 

Here's another example of DS9's successful use of the multi-episode arc ... For the Cause, For the Uniform and Blaze of Glory were nowhere near each other in a chronological viewing, but if you ran them back to back to back they are a three-part episode!

 

God dawg, this show rocked the house!

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Dude, there are big six-part arcs coming up ... you have no idea!

 

Isn't Frank Langella an excellent bad guy?  And what do you think of old Vedek Winn?

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Who? Is that the actor's name? And Winn? Interesting villain (?) so far.

 

The DS9 episode "For The Uniform" is on right now on SkyOneMix.

 

Awesome frickin episode.

348031[/snapback]

 

Sisko is the Mack-Daddy :D

 

Here's another example of DS9's successful use of the multi-episode arc ... For the Cause, For the Uniform and Blaze of Glory were nowhere near each other in a chronological viewing, but if you ran them back to back to back they are a three-part episode!

 

God dawg, this show rocked the house!

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First one's in season 4, the other two are in season 5. So they're not chronological but they somehow go together? How's that work?

 

I've heard the term 'arc' tossed around but didn't really 'get' what it means.

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Arcs a stories that continue over several episodes. Some of which do not need to be in direct order, but are in chronological order. They can be loose (like Voyager's journey home) or more directly connected (like DS9).

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Who?  Is that the actor's name?  And Winn?  Interesting villain (?) so far.

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I can't remember the character's name (sorry) but Frank Langella is the actor's name. He played the guy who was the ringleader of the Circle. And he was all conniving with Winn until she cut him loose at the end.

 

First one's in season 4, the other two are in season 5.  So they're not chronological but they somehow go together?  How's that work?

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All three are about the same guy. It's his "story" (and he sticks to it! :D ).

 

I think people use the term "arc" when they want to avoid a negative connotation from the words "soap opera." All soaps should be as good as DS9, then people wouldn't think so little of them!

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Yeah, an arc would be a series of episodes that follow the same overall storyline. The episodes don't have to be directly connected in order for that episode to be completed as is the case with 2 or 3 part stories where if you watch part 1 and part 3 you'll be missing a third of that specific story. With an arc you have several complete stories that fit together to tell a broader story when put together.

 

If you think back to TNG's episodes that dealt with the Klingons where it starts with "Sins of the Father" where Worf must go to the Klingon home world to defend his family honor, then follow that up with "Reunion" and Picard becoming the arbiter of succession followed by "Redemption" Parts I & II where we see Gawron installed as the Chancellor and the Klingon civil war. That was basically one large story arc that was spread out over 3 seasons (Seasons 3, 4 and 5).

 

DS9 was far more extensive with it's story arcs. There are 2 major arcs, one spanning seasons 4 & 5 and then another spanning seasons 6 & 7. Not every episode in those seasons are part of the arcs but the overall theme of those seasons follow the arcs.

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DS9 is by far my favorite of all of the series. I have probably seen all of the episodes at least 4 or 5 times some such as Trials-and-Tribblations I have seen many more times. I have them on DVD, thanks to a great friend, and have watched at least one episode every day since I got them earlier this year. I also record the ones that are airing on TV with my TiVo and watch all of those on weekends while I am running my flea market booth.

 

I have to agree with VBG that DS9 will turn you into a Niner by the end of the complete run. I loved the idea of not only seeing the actions taken by the crew but seeing what happened as a result. One thing that I had always found to be a little bit of a let down in the other series is that they took action then took off so we never got to see the effects of those actions and therefore could see that they had done appeared to be a heroic task but in reality their efforts could have ruined a society for all we know.

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I don't get it ddillard. You have them on DVD but you also record them on TiVo? Easier access? I just watch em on the computer. It's OK, bceause I have a 19" monitor and sit a couple feet away from it... makes for good viewing. One day I'll have a wide HDTV hooked up (don't need plasma, don't need flat, just a regular one) and that'll be really nice. :P

 

Wow, 2x07 "Rules of Acquisition". First female Ferengi (DS9 anyway), and first mention of the Dominion. So the Dominion is Quark's and Nagus's fault, eh? Fancy that...

 

I guess you could say there are a few minor arcs in Voyager. I thought how the relationship between Naomi and Seven happened was pretty good, especially what Naomi had to say about Seven and the Borg... "I don't wanna be part of her Collective", and later (imitating a drone) "We are the Borg". :yucky: So that was neat that they became pals, and it kept coming up in later episodes. Or Kes, the terms of her leaving and then her return. Or the guy from the 29th century who they encounter a few times. ...like that?

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I don't get it ddillard.  You have them on DVD but you also record them on TiVo?  Easier access?  I just watch em on the computer.  It's OK, bceause I have a 19" monitor and sit a couple feet away from it... makes for good viewing.  One day I'll have a wide HDTV hooked up (don't need plasma, don't need flat, just a regular one) and that'll be really nice. :P

 

Wow, 2x07 "Rules of Acquisition".  First female Ferengi (DS9 anyway), and first mention of the Dominion.  So the Dominion is Quark's and Nagus's fault, eh?  Fancy that...

 

I guess you could say there are a few minor arcs in Voyager.  I thought how the relationship between Naomi and Seven happened was pretty good, especially what Naomi had to say about Seven and the Borg... "I don't wanna be part of her Collective", and later (imitating a drone) "We are the Borg". :yucky: So that was neat that they became pals, and it kept coming up in later episodes.  Or Kes, the terms of her leaving and then her return.  Or the guy from the 29th century who they encounter a few times.  ...like that?

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I don't know that I'd call those aspects of Voyager "arcs", I'd call them story and character development. In my mind an arc would really need several episodes to qualify as an arc and the stories would need to be separate but still based on the same overall theme. I'm trying to think of a Voyager Arc but can't really come up with one at the moment.

 

As for the Dominion being Quark's and Zek's fault, I don't think I'd call it a "fault". It was a Ferengi episode that introduces us to the Dominion but the Dominion would have come into play one way or the other with or without the Ferengi. That's explained later in the series, specifically in the final episode of Season 2.

 

So now that you're a good ways into season 2 what are your overall thoughts so far? Has your opinion of the Ferengi begun to change yet?

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I don't get it ddillard.  You have them on DVD but you also record them on TiVo?  Easier access?  I just watch em on the computer.  It's OK, bceause I have a 19" monitor and sit a couple feet away from it... makes for good viewing.  One day I'll have a wide HDTV hooked up (don't need plasma, don't need flat, just a regular one) and that'll be really nice. :P

 

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I still record them on TiVo largely because I run a booth at a flea market on weekends and I take the TiVo with me and me and my roommate watch them there. It is easier to take the TiVo than it is to lug a dvd player and the dvd's back and forth every weekend. Having the TiVo also has the advantage of being able to watch other shows as well.

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I TiVo them too even though I have the DVD's. Sometimes it's just more convienient to have them on the TiVo then worry about getting the DVD's out and figuring out which one to watch.

 

Right now I have 56 episodes of DS9 and 42 episodes of TNG on one of my TiVo's.

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@ddillard: Other shows...? :P Just playin... that makes perfect sense then. Especially if you've hacked your TiVo and dropped a much larger hard drive in it. Or two as I've heard some can support. Two 500GB Hitachi Deskstars, you'll have 1TB of storage in your TiVo.

 

I don't use TiVo myself. I have them on my computer, or burned to DVD-Rs. It would be nice to have the DVDs of TNG, DS9, and Voyager, but they're really expensive, and even if I did buy them, it would be mostly for looks... it would still be more convenient to watch them on the computer, and the quality is almost as good as DVD. And I'd say watching them on the computer is easier than DVD or TiVo.

 

Someday I'll have the computer ran through a TV, and a wireless keyboard and mouse... that'll be the ultimate ease of watching them. Though I'm sure I'll be done with DS9 by then. :yucky:

 

The Ferengi are alright, though I still think they can be annoying. I don't completely understand their greed. Are the replicators specifically prohibited from replicating that gold-pressed latinum that Quark craves? With all the security override chips Quark keeps on hand, you'd think he could get around any such restriction. In the socialist future of Star Trek, the capitalist Ferengi fall short of making too much sense.

 

The Dominion got mentioned again in one of the last episodes I watched, I think it was 2x11 "Rivals". Yeah... that gambling sphere came from the Dominion. And when it was said everyone got a worried look, as if they had a reason to be afraid at that point, when they'd only heard the name mentioned once before. Odd.

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The Ferengi are alright, though I still think they can be annoying.  I don't completely understand their greed.  Are the replicators specifically prohibited from replicating that gold-pressed latinum that Quark craves?  With all the security override chips Quark keeps on hand, you'd think he could get around any such restriction.  In the socialist future of Star Trek, the capitalist Ferengi fall short of making too much sense.

 

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If you watch the special features, the Ferengi are modeled after the human society of our time. They are the most human-like species on the entire show.

 

I'm sure there are ways to detect replicated latinum, gems, or other currency.

 

The socialist future of Star Trek is only within the Federation. There are numerous other worlds and species who are not part of the Federation ... they are all still using currency and getting paid for their work. I'm sure that Kira is drawing some sort of salary for her job as Bajoran liaison and first officer at DS9.

 

I have a question: How are the Federation folks paying for their drinks and food at Quark's and other businesses on the Promenade? The Bajorans use money, as do the Ferengi, and that Morn guy (whatever species he is). And Quark isn't giving away anything for free whether his customer is in the Federation or not!

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Who knows, it's probably a plot hole. Though I bet VBG and a couple of the others may have a better idea. The episode where Bashir and the handicapped ensign eat at the Klingon restaurant (2x06 "Melora") shows them argue with the Klingon proprietor, but they take their food without paying. So maybe the Federation folks get their food/drink free as part of some agreement. After all, if the Federation weren't there, some characters think (or thought in the beginning of Season 2) that the Cardassians would move back in and re-occupy Bajor. That said, maybe Bajor is paying the Federation officers something, to explain any money they might have.

 

There might be ways to detect replicated latinum with a tricorder, but not everyone Quark deals with is all that bright, or has access to a tricorder. I doubt there would be any visible differences. Presumably latinum is just a mineral. Should be as easy as anything to replicate.

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The Ferengi are alright, though I still think they can be annoying.  I don't completely understand their greed.  Are the replicators specifically prohibited from replicating that gold-pressed latinum that Quark craves?  With all the security override chips Quark keeps on hand, you'd think he could get around any such restriction.  In the socialist future of Star Trek, the capitalist Ferengi fall short of making too much sense.

 

348557[/snapback]

 

If you watch the special features, the Ferengi are modeled after the human society of our time. They are the most human-like species on the entire show.

 

I'm sure there are ways to detect replicated latinum, gems, or other currency.

 

The socialist future of Star Trek is only within the Federation. There are numerous other worlds and species who are not part of the Federation ... they are all still using currency and getting paid for their work. I'm sure that Kira is drawing some sort of salary for her job as Bajoran liaison and first officer at DS9.

 

I have a question: How are the Federation folks paying for their drinks and food at Quark's and other businesses on the Promenade? The Bajorans use money, as do the Ferengi, and that Morn guy (whatever species he is). And Quark isn't giving away anything for free whether his customer is in the Federation or not!

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Evidently, there is a rarely seen ATM in Quark's that disposes all kinds of currency, including Federation credits.

 

My best theory on how the credits work (which I just came up with) is that the Federation receives some of an alien culture's currency if they engage in trade with them. They keep that it in a pot and people can exchange credits for some of that currency. Doesn't make much sense, I know.

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I have a question:  How are the Federation folks paying for their drinks and food at Quark's and other businesses on the Promenade?  The Bajorans use money, as do the Ferengi, and that Morn guy (whatever species he is).  And Quark isn't giving away anything for free whether his customer is in the Federation or not!

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It was never directly addressed but we know that Quark doesn't pay rent, upkeep or for the energy reserves that he uses for his bar or holosuites as is mentioned in "Business As Usual" so I would say that any Federation members that visit Quarks get their drinks or food (or holosuite usage) for free as compensation.

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Do the Federation officers use the Holosuites? I imagine they do for platonic stuff, but as straight-and-narrow as the Federation officers are, they wouldn't be using them for sex. No Vulcans, no Pon-Farr (this came up twice in Voyager, not sure about TOS).

 

But good point... And if Quark did pay for all those things (which is logcial) the Bajorans could delegate that money to an "allowance" for the socialist Federation to be able to shop in the captialist-run businesses, to an extent. Either way, it works out.

 

I watched four episodes last night -- Second Sight, Sanctuary, The Rivals, and The Alternate. I didn't think they were that good at all. But I just watched Armageddon Game (these all being from Season 2, 9-13) and it was great. Next up is 2x14 "Whispers" which I've read early on in this thread was a good one. Well, I'm going to go get something to eat, then I'll watch that with my meal. B)

 

Thanks for the replies BTW. Maybe I'll turn this thread into a "DS9 Blog" if that's alright... I posted in the episode guide forum on a few Voyager episodes near the end, but in that format I felt more compelled to write a formal review, as opposed to here I can comment on the ones I like as I watch it and ask questions as I go or whatever.

 

That said, I'm leaving California in 19 days to move across the country... by car. By then I think I'll be about halfway into Season 3. Once I'm in North Carolina (moving in with my girlfriend, long-distance relationship) I'll be watching them a lot less... but I'll have someone to watch them with, and that's always nice. Not sure how much she digs Trek, but by the end of DS9 she probably will. B)

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Do the Federation officers use the Holosuites?  I imagine they do for platonic stuff, but as straight-and-narrow as the Federation officers are, they wouldn't be using them for sex.  No Vulcans, no Pon-Farr (this came up twice in Voyager, not sure about TOS).

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Yeah, you'll see later in the series that the holosuites aren't only for 'adult' entertainment. They use them for all kinds of activities from defending the Alamo to going to a 1960's Las Vegas Casino. Think of the Holosuites as you would think of the Holodecks on TNG.

 

I watched four episodes last night -- Second Sight, Sanctuary, The Rivals, and The Alternate.  I didn't think they were that good at all.  But I just watched Armageddon Game (these all being from Season 2, 9-13) and it was great.  Next up is 2x14 "Whispers" which I've read early on in this thread was a good one.  Well, I'm going to go get something to eat, then I'll watch that with my meal. B)

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I enjoyed Rivals, it helps set up a key relationship for future seasons. Armageddon Game helps that relationship also. Second Sight has never been a favorite of mine and neither has Sanctuary but they were "ok". Whispers was a really good episode which I'm sure by now you already know. It keeps you guessing until the very end.

 

 

Thanks for the replies BTW.  Maybe I'll turn this thread into a "DS9 Blog" if that's alright... I posted in the episode guide forum on a few Voyager episodes near the end, but in that format I felt more compelled to write a formal review, as opposed to here I can comment on the ones I like as I watch it and ask questions as I go or whatever.

 

That said, I'm leaving California in 19 days to move across the country... by car.  By then I think I'll be about halfway into Season 3.  Once I'm in North Carolina (moving in with my girlfriend, long-distance relationship) I'll be watching them a lot less... but I'll have someone to watch them with, and that's always nice.  Not sure how much she digs Trek, but by the end of DS9 she probably will. B)

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I enjoy getting your opinions on all of these episodes. I've seen them so many times myself that it's refreshing to get a new and fresh perspective on them.

 

What part of NC are you heading to? I used to date a woman in Fayetteville.

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Do you never sleep? Heh... I guess it's early morning where you're at. I'm moving to Chocowinity, which is between Greenville and Washington, Beaufort County if I remember correctly. So yes, I'll be in the neighborhood. Oh, and the first time I visited NC, I visited friends in Suffolk, VA, and they took us to Virginia Beach. Here we are, there:

 

drjovb2im.th.jpg

 

Yes, Rivals did start the friendship between Bashir and O'Brien, if it could be called that at this stage. There's a poll somewhere here about which friendship is "better" between "Bashir and Garak" and "Bashir and O'Brien". I'm really not liking O'Brien when he deals with Bashir... yes Bashir does talk a lot (he is French...) but he's a good guy, and at this point O'Brien's just a little rude to him. Bashir aside, O'Brien's an alright guy.

 

I did like Whispers. I knew I would from the beginning. Good reversal there.

 

I thought the holosuites would be used for non-sexual encounters, but earlier on in the series, a few characters made a point to point out that that's what Quark was brokering them for. I'm sure a Holodeck is a Holodeck, but we know what programs Quark is writing (or acquiring) for them. And since Federation officers so often shy away from relationships (Bashir gives a few reasons in "Armageddon Game"), you'd think they'd use the holosuites more for that itch that always needs scratching. Sometimes I think the Federation is a bit too idealistic. Seems most people I know, Trekkie or not, say if THEY had a holodeck, the things they'd do in one. It makes for a great subject of discussion in certain crowds. B)

 

A few timeline questions I have... When does Sisko change his hair? I know at some point he shaves his head and grows a goatee, but where I am he still has his hair. And when does Voyager leave DS9? I remember from 1x01-02 "Caretaker" that Voyager starts out docked at DS9. Does that happen after DS9's seventh season, or somewhere in the middle? Also, do we ever meet Naomi Wildman's father? He's supposed to be on DS9, but I haven't seen a guy with four small horns on his head. That would have made a great passoff to Voyager if this guy was senior staff, to create a point of appeal in Voyager for DS9 fans.

 

The next episode of DS9 calls to me... I have the night off and nothing else to do. B)

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Do you never sleep? 

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On occasion, but rarely while in the middle of a project lol

 

I'm really not liking O'Brien when he deals with Bashir... yes Bashir does talk a lot (he is French...) but he's a good guy, and at this point O'Brien's just a little rude to him.  Bashir aside, O'Brien's an alright guy.

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O'Briens treatment of Bashir will change soon, they become best of friends. They've never really pinpointed Bashir's nationality, though one of the bonus discs said he was from England I believe.

 

I thought the holosuites would be used for non-sexual encounters, but earlier on in the series, a few characters made a point to point out that that's what Quark was brokering them for.  I'm sure a Holodeck is a Holodeck, but we know what programs Quark is writing (or acquiring) for them.  And since Federation officers so often shy away from relationships (Bashir gives a few reasons in "Armageddon Game"), you'd think they'd use the holosuites more for that itch that always needs scratching.  Sometimes I think the Federation is a bit too idealistic.  Seems most people I know, Trekkie or not, say if THEY had a holodeck, the things they'd do in one.  It makes for a great subject of discussion in certain crowds. B)

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Another bonus disc said that their intention was to make DS9 like a Western town with Quarks being the "saloon/brothel" but they never really played that aspect up too much.

 

 

A few timeline questions I have... When does Sisko change his hair?  I know at some point he shaves his head and grows a goatee, but where I am he still has his hair.  And when does Voyager leave DS9?  I remember from 1x01-02 "Caretaker" that Voyager starts out docked at DS9.  Does that happen after DS9's seventh season, or somewhere in the middle?  Also, do we ever meet Naomi Wildman's father?  He's supposed to be on DS9, but I haven't seen a guy with four small horns on his head.  That would have made a great passoff to Voyager if this guy was senior staff, to create a point of appeal in Voyager for DS9 fans.

 

The next episode of DS9 calls to me... I have the night off and nothing else to do. B)

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I don't remember the specific episodes but I believe the goatee comes in around the end of the 3rd season. I believe he shows up for season 4 with the shaved head.

 

We never see Voyager on DS9 (the show), we only see DS9 (the station) on Voyager. Naomi's father was on another DS but if I recall correctly it wasn't DS9, it was something like DS6 or DS3. We never see him on DS9.

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Are you sure about Naomi's dad? I was pretty sure they said he was stationed on DS9, in one of the Voyager episodes. Not just because Voyager left DS9, but I believe DS9 was expressly named later. Though I will admit I am or was confused on the point of her father, as I thought he was on board Voyager, until I asked in another thread.

 

Just watched 2x15 "Paradise" and the ending kinda let me down, though the whole episode was good. It made me hope that the Federation has worthy punishments for torture and other such crimes against humanity. If I were Sisko, upon returning to the Runabout, I would have relieved Kira of duty, beamed that woman into space, flew down, transported up the women and children, and then blasted that whole camp with phasers. But that's just me... too much "turn the other cheek" in too many Starfleet officers for my liking.

 

In one of the last couple episodes I watched, probably "Armageddon Game"... yeah, that was it, he was telling O'Brien about the girl he almost fell in love with. He said he was in Paris. He's European for sure. I'd believe England, but my instincts are leaning towards France.

 

I can see DS9 as an Old Western town. At least the Promenade. Quark's the barkeep and Odo is the sherrif. Wasn't the original Star Trek, TOS, supposed to be a cross between sci-fi and westerns? I read somewhere, someone making this point, saying Kirk was like the cowboy hero and Spock was his Indian companion. I can't say one way or the other, I'm not a big fan of westerns... or TOS.

 

You're right about 4x01. He's got a bit of a goatee growing in 3x26, but his hair is remarkably shorter. In 4x01 he has the "new" look. Seems like 3x22 is the first "goatee" episode; he's clean shaven in 3x21. I really hate to skip ahead, but it's a very minor point. I saw some Cardassians, a Romulan (or Vulcan, sometimes I can't tell), what looked to be the start of a space battle involving a Romulan or Klingon ship... a green ship, not a Bird of Prey, but with the rounded wings that connect at two points... Pretty sure that's Romulan anyway. But then, when I read I'm always skipping ahead. Shame on me... B)

 

Can't wait for things to improve between Bashir and O'Brien... it's the one thing about O'Brien I can't get past at the moment. And Garak... So far I think he's only been in 2-3 episodes. I remember seeing him a couple times when DS9 was on TV (when it was new), does he become more prevelant later?

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Garak is awesome, but we don't really get to see a whole lot of him at any time. There are several excellent Garak episodes coming up.

 

I think they were smart in their sparing use of Garak. It just adds to the mystery of the man, you know?

 

The more hair Ben Sisko shaved off, the cooler he got. I really like his look from season 4 on ... shaved head, goattee.

 

Is Paradise the episode about the changeling infiltration of earth? I can't remember.

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No, Paradise was the episode where Ben Sisko and Miles O'Brien transport to the planet where that crazy sadistic woman has set up an EM field to shut down all technology, and she tortures and kills people in the name of "getting down to the roots of the human condition". Ugh. I tell ya... Were I Sisko, I would have shot her as soon as phasers were working! Or put her in that box and transport it to a Y-class planet (see the Voyager episode "Demon").

 

//edit: Just got home, DS9 is on Spike. Only Bashir, Garak, and Quark are on the station, everything's out but life support and turbolifts, Bashir's hair is going grey, and Garak suggests the Dominion. I left once I realized it was really far ahead. Though it was nice to get a taste of things to come. B) And good to see it's on TV as reruns. B)

Edited by Dark Reality

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No, Paradise was the episode where Ben Sisko and Miles O'Brien transport to the planet where that crazy sadistic woman has set up an EM field to shut down all technology, and she tortures and kills people in the name of "getting down to the roots of the human condition".  Ugh.  I tell ya... Were I Sisko, I would have shot her as soon as phasers were working!  Or put her in that box and transport it to a Y-class planet (see the Voyager episode "Demon").

 

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Oh yeah ... I hated that woman. I would have shot her, too. I was completely grossed out by that stupid chick they sent to seduce Sisko and persuade him to hang around. And the whole idea of using Miles and Sisko for stud service for their little incestuous commune there ..... ewwww.

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