You know what i hate?

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

I hate star trek fans who are care about who wrote the episode, or who directed it, and when their favorite director or writer isn't working, they get into a big hissy fit and say that episode sucks and stuff. And, I hate it when trekkies/trekkers hate an episode just because it was badly written. The ONLY reason i hate any episodes, is because it has bad acting in it. Any actor can make any script look good, as long as they try. I mean, YOUR A TREKKIE. YOU CAN'T NOT LIKE A SERIES JUST BECAUSE THE WRITING ISN'T THAT GOOD!!!

 

(this is all referring to Enterprise)

[HRH The KING 0]

With television, stage or film, writing is the key.

 

Good writing is the foundation.

 

Even the best actor will struggle if the material is poor.

 

A Star Trek fan has every right to not like a series if they believe the writing is sub-standard.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

who cares what the writing is like. You don't like star trek for the writing, you like star trek for star trek! You do not go to [enter random fast food chain here] just because they hire high school, acned, rude kids do you?

[Madame Butterfly 0]

That's ridiculous.

 

Of course writing is key.

 

You don't read a book because the writing is poor, so why watch subpar tv?

[HRH The KING 0]

You wouldn't have Star Trek without the writing.

 

If the writing isn't good, then it deserves to be criticised.

 

Not all Star Trek fans pledge unconditional devotion to Star Trek and rightly so.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Yes, but what i'm saying is that Star Trek shouldn't be hated and critized just because the writing is dumb. Its not star trek's fault, its the writers.

[HRH The KING 0]

The writers are criticised.

 

That's why we say that Star Trek, as a franchise isn't dead.

 

With excellent writers, the franchise can be strong.

[Madame Butterfly 0]

But Wally, you really don't hate those whose opinions differ from you, do you?

 

Hates a very strong word.

 

Perhaps you don't understand their standards, but instead of ranting, try to understand what makes them feel that way.

 

Writers are hired by the producers, [i think ], and if they aren't approving the scripts than they'd be fired.

 

I don't think it's the writers, it's those that hire them.

 

I don't like every Trek, but I give each Trek a try. If I can't connect with the series, I typically don't watch it anymore.

 

Doesn't mean I'm not a true Trek fan, just means my tastes differ from the next, and that's okay.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Yah, alright. But still, im not hating people with opinions whose differ from mine, but rather stating the fact that i hate people who don't like certain episodes because their favorite writer isn't working on it. Trekkies are supposed to love star trek for being star trek, and not care about the writing. (even though the writing is important)

[HRH The KING 0]

Trekkies are supposed to love star trek for being star trek, and not care about the writing. (even though the writing is important)

 

No they aren't.

 

If the writing is poor they can criticise it.

 

I don't care who the writers are.

 

I only care about them delivering high quality material.

[Madame Butterfly 0]

Yah, alright. But still, im not hating people with opinions whose differ from mine, but rather stating the fact that i hate people who don't like certain episodes because their favorite writer isn't working on it. Trekkies are supposed to love star trek for being star trek, and not care about the writing. (even though the writing is important)

334093[/snapback]

 

Writing is everything to a good show.

 

Well this is boiling down to a lot of different things than stated in your original post.

 

I still think you don't hate them, rather they frustrate you in some way.

[Data 0]

Enterprise had some great writing. So did TOS back in the 60's. The main problem with both series was the station they were showed on. I believe that once Enterprise is put on syndication it will be the hit TOS was.

 

That is my two cents.

[HRH The KING 0]

Well people can argue over whether ENT or the other Star Trek series had good writing and the various factors involved in ENT's failure, and heck knows I've spent a lot of time in those very arguments which I'm not going over again.

 

 

But the fact is that this attitude of some people that a Star Trek fan MUST completely and totally love Star Trek with NO criticism or dissent over perceived quality is completely misguided.

Edited June 25, 2005 by The King

[Tina 0]

I like Trek.But not all Trek.. Besides you have better things to worry about than people who hated ENterprise.Besides its over and done with

[BKY1701 0]

I like Star Trek for the story, writing = story.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Yah, i guess the people arent really hated by me, but they just frustrate me because they're always complaing about the writing, even though they're supposed to be trekkies and just like trek, like me...

[HRH The KING 0]

but they just frustrate me because they're always complaing about the writing, even though they're supposed to be trekkies and just like trek, like me...

 

There is no "supposed to be".

 

They ARE Star Trek fans.

 

They criticise BECAUSE they are Star Trek fans, and they don't want the franchise to slip into mediocrity.

 

The writing has to be of the highest possible standard. If it isn't, then it's unacceptable.

[Data 0]

To be perfectly honest, I did not like Next Generation when it first came out. I believe it took me 3 years to begin to appreciate it. I gave it a chance. I do not think Enterprise or TOS got their chance.

 

There are episodes in all the series that I am not crazy about. But every series had the spirit of Trek in their way. I am just starting to begin to enjoy DS9. I am finally watching the last season.

[gul_nodrog 2]

That's ludicrous to say that we should all love Trek for Trek's sake! It's all about the writing and the direction the ppl in charge of the franchise are taking the franchise.

 

If it's going down the wrong road, fans have the responsibility to criticize and let their voice be heard! We are in the ultimate control and we do not have to accept anything that we do not like or agree with ... we simply don't watch, don't buy.

 

I know that I exercised that right by not tuning in to Enterprise after the first several episodes ... I didn't like the show and knew that there were people out there who could have created a better series. Heck, there are people writing fan fiction who were doing better than those hacks who were making the big bucks to crank out substandard material for Enterprise. That is just my opinion, but I have a right to it, do I not?

 

Substandard Trek insults the fan base. We deserve better and I hope we get it the next time.

[KIMIMELA 1]

Any actor can go out there and perform in front of a camera, a kid can do that. It's the writing that counts! I study film-making all day every day at college, I think I should know. :)

Edited June 26, 2005 by mj

[sea trooper 0]

Writing doesn't really mean everything. Good writing helps but I think it is the acting performance that counts. Any good actor/actress will save a movie of bad dialogue.

[Takara_Soong 4]

I mean, YOUR A TREKKIE. YOU CAN'T NOT LIKE A SERIES JUST BECAUSE THE WRITING ISN'T THAT GOOD!!! SUCK IT UP PRINCESS!!!!!

334078[/snapback]

 

I can like or dislike a series for any reason I choose as it is matter of personal opinion. I will respect another person's opinion regarding a particular series however it does bug the heck out of me if the person's reason is something I consider trivial (the "I don't like the theme song so the whole series sucks" type).

 

I don't think there is one factor that can determine good or bad. Writing is crucial. A bad/flawed script can be made watchable by great performances but it will still be a bad/flawed script. In the same way, a great script can be ruined by mediocre/bad performances or direction (I'm thinking Stuart Baird here).

 

Great Trek features a great script brought to life with great performances and great direction and we're spoiled. Over the years we have been treated to so much truly great writing and performances that we expect more (too much?) from Trek than we expect from any other series or movie that we watch. Did Enterprise have some bad episodes - yes but so did TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. Did Enterprise have some great episodes - yes again, as did all of the series.

 

Personally, I don't judge an episode on who wrote or directed it. I couldn't even tell you who wrote most of my favourite episodes. I can't really think of any episode I've watched of any series that featured a bad performance from the main cast. I try not to let the bad performance of one guest spoil my overall enjoyment of an episode either (I'm thinking Richard Riehle in Cold Station 12 here) especially when it's countered by a great performance by another guest (yes, Brent Spiner).

[HRH The KING 0]

I'll tell you what I hate, and no it's not what people may think.

 

As a DS9 fan, I hate the fact we had never had a clear run as the sole incarnation of the franchise.

 

DS9 had to share the spotlight and the viewers with TNG (for the first two years) and VOY (for the rest of DS9), and I think DS9 was wrongly overshadowed by both and never got the credit it deserved.

 

I hate the fact that VOY was placed in the spotlight with it's "Big Breasted Babe" while DS9 was ignored like the kid at school with no friends. But VOY was mocked for using blatant sex appeal to keep it afloat, so maybe we got our revenge.

 

I hate the fact that our character Worf was turned into comic relief in INS and NEM.

 

I hate the fact the Defiant was "saved" by the Enterprise-E in Star Trek: First Contact which made a mockery of its importance in DS9.

 

Meh

[Sam The Smuggler 1]

I For One Don't Follow Star Trek Blindly. It's True That There's Not Much That I Don't Like...But There Are A Few Episodes.

 

Seems To Me, Atleast In My Opinion, That You're Saying We're Obligated To Like Everything...Even The Bad Episodes...We'll, We're Not.

 

It's Be Like..."I Don't Care How Bad That Episode Was, I'm A Trekkie, So I Have To Like It". That's A Load Of Bull.

 

The People That Run The Show, However, Are Obligated To Put Out A Good Product, It's Their Job And They Don't Always Succeed.

Edited June 27, 2005 by Sam The Smuggler

[HRH The KING 0]

I completely agree.

 

 

BTW- I'll tell you all what I don't hate.

 

I don't hate the fact that in just over an hour, DS9 is on SkyOne and it's "Way Of The Warror Part I".

 

[krysis 2]

I don't get Star Trek on any of the TV channels or network here. Its very hard to get ST literature.... films ... dvds.... and stuff so whenever I come across anything ST, its like finally finding an oasis in a desert. I feed myself ST by surfing the net.... downloading teleplays of the series.... and watching them whenever it does show on TV....

 

Its frustrating that I can't get any reliable ST source in my country. Whenever I travel to Kuala Lumpur or Singapore... I'd spend my money and import as many books as I can stretch my latimums.

 

Given my situation, I believe I enjoyed ... mostly enjoyed all the Star Trek I can get my hands on to the extend my wife thinks I'm nuts.

[Sam The Smuggler 1]

Well, That Sucks That Yiu Don't Get Much If Any Star Trek There. Any Idea Why That Is?

[Kor37 9]

I don't get Star Trek on any of the TV channels or network here. Its very hard to get ST literature.... films ... dvds

 

I can't stand idly by while someone is deprived of Star Trek. Tell you what, you pay the postage and I'll send you a box full of Trek books.

[Matt 0]

Just because we're Star Trek fans does not mean we must love everything Star Trek. We are free to criticise whatever we want about an episode, writer or series. If we don't like like an episode that does not mean we are not "true" Star Trek fans. Criticism can often be very beneficial, it helps to stop the franchise from slipping from height it should be at.

 

Good and imaginative writing is often the backbone to a good episode. The writing is the story, it is the episode. The rest such as the acting and special effects etc. are also all very important but if the writing is bad then the actors won't have anything to say.

[ilovedata 0]

The writing is one of my favorite things about Star Trek, so yes, it is important to me that a show have a good script. <_< Flat, cliche dialogue could actually ruin a potentially good story, I think.