Section 31

[mavewilliams 0]

I think ever since its introduction, there has been a certain trend to paint Section 31 as an evil organization. And yes indeed, it can be. After all, it stands for everything that the Federation does not condone.

 

Yet, the events of the Dominion War, if nothing else, serves to highlight the fact that the Federation cannot always operate on its highly moral values when the other parties (i.e. other races) are not.

 

I mean think about it. Had the disease S31 introduced to The Great Link worked, it potentially could have saved lives while ridding us of a significant threat. On the other hand, it would have meant the demise of Odo- a small price to pay (in my humble opinion) for thousands of lives that were lost.

 

I mean, realistically speaking, the Federation's strict adherence to a strong moral values can be a deterrent many times to getting things done. Granted, moral values are important for any race- perhaps even moreso for humanity. Still, the Federation cannot continue to be the only organization that does not play 'dirty' when the other parties are.

 

This is why I think Section 31 is quite important. They do the dirty job that the Federation does not want to do. Essentially, the organization works for the betterment of the Federation and its citizens- a worthy cause.

 

I don't condone all of the actions of S31, but at the same time, I do not necessarily think they are absolutely evil, and I absolutely do not think that all attempts should be made to shut them down.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[M_5 0]

I've never viewed Section 31 as "evil".

In fact,they are a very neccessary branch of Federation security.

I use to roll my eyes whenever Julian Bashir and Ben Sisko would whine about Sloan and Section 31.Didn't Sisko and Garak murder some Romulan diplomats to bring the Romulans into the war?

Section 31 rocks! :(

[penciledin 0]

Section 31 was an allegory for an organization where the ends definitely justify the means. In the current American government, with freedom dying everywhere, this is a government that believes in this ideal.

 

Certainly, Sisko and Garak did dispose of the Romulan ambassador, but Sisko had a good deal of his conscience to answer to.

 

It seems to me that Section 31 wouldn't even bat an eyelid to do these things.

 

Furthermore, for such a small group... who do they answer to? How do we know they are always working in the best interests of the Federation? I do agree that the decision to committ genocide on the Founders was a good one, but what about espionage and their almost treasonous handling of the Klingon incident on Enterprise? They were willing to sacrifice the pride of Starfleet along with 84-some-odd people to protect the Klingon's deadly little secret... and what for?

[gul_nodrog 2]

I've never viewed Section 31 as "evil".

In fact,they are a very neccessary branch of Federation security.

I use to roll my eyes whenever Julian Bashir and Ben Sisko would whine about Sloan and Section 31.Didn't Sisko and Garak murder some Romulan diplomats to bring the Romulans into the war?

Section 31 rocks! :lol:

332895[/snapback]

 

Dude, Sisko never whined. :lol: :lol:

 

Garak murdered the Romulan and Sisko reaped the benefit of the murder. If I remember correctly, Sisko had no idea what Garak was planning, but after Garak took care of business, Sisko didn't turn him in either.

 

All's fair in love and war.

 

Now Julian Bashir did his fair share of whining throughout the series, although it became less strident as the seasons went on.

 

I loved Section 31, the entire concept of it. In this uber-politically correct world, there are organizations like S31 that are necessary evils. While Pollyannas stride the globe (or roam the galaxy in the Star Trek world), it's always the guys in Section 31 who are out there doing the necessary dirty work.

 

God love 'em.

[M_5 0]

Okay,Sisko never whined about Section 31....but he did have a holier than thou attitude when it came to the Section's tactics during the Dominion War,which was very irritating.

As for the incident with Garak murdering the Romulans,I believe when Sisko found out and attacked Garak,Garak told him something like "You knew perfectly well what you were asking for when you decided to involve me in this..."

Sisko wanted Garak to kill the Romulan delegate.He knew the murder,plus the falsified information regarding the Dominions interest in the Romulan Star Empire would drive the Roms into the Alliance.

I think the DS9ers should have been more willing to assist the Section in its campaign against the Dominion,rather than always opposing them.

[gul_nodrog 2]

Okay,Sisko never whined about Section 31....but he did have a holier than thou attitude when it came to the Section's tactics during the Dominion War,which was very irritating.

As for the incident with Garak murdering the Romulans,I believe when Sisko found out and attacked Garak,Garak told him something like "You knew perfectly well what you were asking for when you decided to involve me in this..."

Sisko wanted Garak to kill the Romulan delegate.He knew the murder,plus the falsified information regarding the Dominions interest in the Romulan Star Empire would drive the Roms into the Alliance.

I think the DS9ers should have been more willing to assist the Section in its campaign against the Dominion,rather than always opposing them.

333471[/snapback]

 

Since Sisko was a "god" (in the words of Ira Steven Behr), I guess he was "holier" than thou, literally! :lol:

 

I always find the prating of bleeding heart liberals quite grating, so I see where you're coming from on the attitudes toward Section 31.

 

With the incident involving Garak, I think that Garak was right on target with his "you knew perfectly well" speech to Sisko after it was all over. On some level, Sisko absolutely knew he was sleeping with the devil in that entire scenario. I think that Sisko spent much of that interlude in a state of denial about what was happening or going to happen. When it did, he had to face himself and live with it, which as we know, he decided he could do.

 

Wonderful episode, wasn't it?

 

I also thoroughly enjoyed Sloan in that Romulan episode during the final season. (Help me, I can't remember the name ... something in Latin, I believe). I think even Julian grew up a little after that encounter.

[Medusa 0]

I have to admit, I didn't see the last two seasons of DS9... So, what is Section 31? Some kind of secret organization, I got that this far. But what did they do? And who was involved in it? *feelingverystupidrightnow* :) :)

[gul_nodrog 2]

I have to admit, I didn't see the last two seasons of DS9... So, what is Section 31? Some kind of secret organization, I got that this far. But what did they do? And who was involved in it? *feelingverystupidrightnow*  :)  :)

338344[/snapback]

 

I have to admit, I didn't see the last two seasons of DS9... So, what is Section 31? Some kind of secret organization, I got that this far. But what did they do? And who was involved in it? *feelingverystupidrightnow*  :)  :P

338344[/snapback]

 

Section 31 was engaged in all sorts of covert operations, doing what the more squeamish folks in the Federation probably wanted to do, but were scared to do.

 

Apparently, Section 31 has been around since the inception of the Federation. It is much like the CIA (I think) ... secret agents, covert operations, assassinations of despots, spies in general. I think that the Obsidian Order to which Garak once belonged on Cardassia could be compared to it .... I didn't really have a problem with them either.

 

Section 31, working with their operatives in place at Starfleet Medical, implanted a virus in Odo which he then passed on to the Great Link. Ultimately, it helped end the Dominion War. See "Tacking into the Wind" Season 7.

 

Also, Section 31 used Dr. Bashir to gather information about a key Romulan politician in a less than savory way. Also Season 7 "Inter Arma Emin Silent Leges."

 

Those are the two eps that come to mind.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I never looked at Section 31 as evil either, they may have come across that way but I don't think they were.

[ddillard 2]

Myself I never thought of S31 as being evil, although I do not agree with some of their tactics such as genocide i do understand the need for such an organization. I think that alot of why S31 got a bad name is that in order for S31 to be able to do it's work it had to be separated from the rest of the Federation in that whenever their actions were discovered the Federation had to appear to be outraged. This gave the organization the ability to operate in secret and to do things that would appear to be against Federation policy.