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Theunicornhunter

The Greatest American

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I don't agree with George W. Bush being on the list. He's polarized Americans and polarized the world more than any US President has in my lifetime.

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You have to remember that George W. Bush won the Presidency by the largest margin since his father did in 1988 with 48,886,097 (53.4% of the popular vote). In 1992 Bill Clinton won with 44,909,326 (43.0% of the popular vote) and in 1996 he won with 47,401,898 (49.2% of the popular vote). In 2000 George W. Bush won with 50,461,092 (47.9% of the popular vote) and in 2004 he won with 60,693,281 (51% of the popular vote).

 

In fact, no other President in US history has had more people vote for him then George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan comes in second with total of 98,350,291 votes for 1980 and 1984, Bill Clinton is in third place with a total of 92,311,224 votes for 1992 and 1996 and George W. Bush had a total of 111,154,373 votes for 2000 and 2004. So looking at those numbers a case can be made that it wasn't George W. Bush that has polarized Americans (going under the assumption that we are polarized). I submit that it has been his opponents that have been the polarizing influences. I can understand how an outsider may view it incorrectly though, a lot of the media tend to have their own political agendas and that goes a long way in shaping peoples opinions.

 

I say that George W. Bush does indeed belong on the list if for no other reason then how he rose up in defense of our nation against our enemies, I shudder to think of how some of his opponents would have dealt with some of the issues that he has had to. Mistakes were made, but I'll take those mistakes over inaction every time.

 

Should George W. Bush win the title? Maybe, maybe not. But he does deserve to be in the top 25.

 

Sorry VBG, but Elvis shouldn't be there IMO. Sure he was a great singer and influential to modern era music but I don't think he should be on the list. I'm not a Reagan fan so I'll not say anything about him to make up for it. LOL

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I agree that he should not win it but his contributions to American culture were significant and still resonate today not only here in the United States but around the world. I would submit that Elvis' contributions to this nation and to the world in general far surpass those of a number of people listed in the top 25. Not the least of which is Bill Clinton. So having Elvis in the top 25 makes sense to me, more sense then having Bill Clinton there.

 

As for Ronald Reagan, he was the greatest President of the latter half of the 20th century and I would argue for the entire century. I would dismiss any argument that says that he doesn't deserve to be at the very least in the top 5 if not the top 1.

 

Thanks for that link Takara, although there are many people on that list of Great Britons who have no business being there IMO.

 

Princess Diana for one.

 

"Looking pretty and wearing sparkling jewels does not make one great"

 

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I don't know a whole lot about her other then the very public image that the world came to know, but I would say that her work near the end of her life against land mines should earn her some kind of positive mention.

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I don't know a whole lot about her other then the very public image that the world came to know, but I would say that her work near the end of her life against land mines should earn her some kind of positive mention.

 

Well Princess Anne had been working for charities for decades and never got the recognition Diana did for a relatively small amount of work that amounted to nothing more than a few shots for the cameras. Everything Diana did only attracted attention because she was pretty (not IMO though). She may have been a nice if unstable person but she doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same catagory as Churchill, Brunel, Shakespeare etc...

 

GWB should totally be in the list because he was the man who finally rid the world of Saddam Hussein and he'll have Bin Laden either dead or beaten soon enough. Plus Bush showed incredible leadership after September 11th.

 

I wouldn't put Clinton in the list though.

Edited by The King

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She may have been a nice if unstable person but she doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same catagory as Churchill, Brunel, Shakespeare etc...

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I can agree with that.

 

Speaking of Churchill he could have been listed on the American list, I haven't seen anyone mention that yet.

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She may have been a nice if unstable person but she doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same catagory as Churchill, Brunel, Shakespeare etc...

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I can agree with that.

 

Speaking of Churchill he could have been listed on the American list, I haven't seen anyone mention that yet.

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Yes, Churchill's mother was an American. But Churchill is more of a part of British History. Particularly during WWII. By the way, GW is a big fan of Churchill's He may of influenced him a lot.

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I don't know a whole lot about her other then the very public image that the world came to know, but I would say that her work near the end of her life against land mines should earn her some kind of positive mention.

 

Well Princess Anne had been working for charities for decades and never got the recognition Diana did for a relatively small amount of work that amounted to nothing more than a few shots for the cameras. Everything Diana did only attracted attention because she was pretty (not IMO though). She may have been a nice if unstable person but she doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same catagory as Churchill, Brunel, Shakespeare etc...

 

GWB should totally be in the list because he was the man who finally rid the world of Saddam Hussein and he'll have Bin Laden either dead or beaten soon enough. Plus Bush showed incredible leadership after September 11th.

 

I wouldn't put Clinton in the list though.

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Dubya, for all the crap he takes, has definately shown he has the backbone to make tough calls that his predicessor didn't. He would be on a list of "Most Daring Presidents" if nothing else, and he should well be on this list.

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She may have been a nice if unstable person but she doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same catagory as Churchill, Brunel, Shakespeare etc...

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I can agree with that.

 

Speaking of Churchill he could have been listed on the American list, I haven't seen anyone mention that yet.

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Yes, Churchill's mother was an American. But Churchill is more of a part of British History. Particularly during WWII. By the way, GW is a big fan of Churchill's He may of influenced him a lot.

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Churchill was also made an American Citizen by Congress.

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She may have been a nice if unstable person but she doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same catagory as Churchill, Brunel, Shakespeare etc...

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I can agree with that.

 

Speaking of Churchill he could have been listed on the American list, I haven't seen anyone mention that yet.

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Yes, Churchill's mother was an American. But Churchill is more of a part of British History. Particularly during WWII. By the way, GW is a big fan of Churchill's He may of influenced him a lot.

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Churchill was also made an American Citizen by Congress.

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But, he is also still considered British. He was the Prime Minister of Britain. As for being the Greatest American, he would probably not be considered. But for Greatest Englishman, yes.

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But, he is also still considered British. He was the Prime Minister of Britain. As for being the Greatest American, he would probably not be considered. But for Greatest Englishman, yes.

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That's true, and I didn't mean to imply that he should be on the list. I was just giving some useless trivia lol

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In terms of historical perspective, none of the twentieth century people on this list would have been able to contibute to this country if the founding fathers, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin etc. had not been around to start this country. Nor would this country have continued to prosper if Lincoln had not held this country together during the Civil War. They are head and shoulders above most of the twentieth Century people in this pole imo. The Twentieth Century Americans deserve to be on the list but not in the top five imo.

Edited by trekz

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If Bush wins I am leaving the US.. if he is the best we have ever had I don't want to hold out hope someone GOOD may come along someday, as the odds are clearly against it.

 

He can't say nuclear right. He can't give an answer without being told what to say. He even thinks it's a good thing someone has to work 3 jobs. I don’t care what choices* he made, he was not one of the best Americans, and to think he is insults all the people in this nation.

 

* More like the choices of his advisers, as he runs off to read a book when the nation is being attacked.

Edited by BKY1701

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* More like the choices of his advisers, as he runs off to read a book when the nation is being attacked.

 

He was actually sitting in a classroom in Sarasota, Florida reading to schoolchildren BEFORE the attack took place.

 

When he was told of the attack, he had to remain quiet and calm.

 

He was hardly going to say "Children, we are under terrorist attack, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!"

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But, he is also still considered British. He was the Prime Minister of Britain. As for being the Greatest American, he would probably not be considered. But for Greatest Englishman, yes.

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That's true, and I didn't mean to imply that he should be on the list. I was just giving some useless trivia lol

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OK, but in a way, he could considered the one who may of influenced Bush the most. Check out how Bush handles stuff as compared to Churchill. The similarities are astounding. I just wish Bush could learn to be as good of a statesman.

 

Who should win?

 

Benjamin Franklin- because without him, we would not of had a chance at becoming a country. His diplomatic skill with the French gave us the weapons we needed to gain independence. He was also instumental in the original writings of the Constitution.

 

Also, he created many patents and discovered electricity.

Edited by Data

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If Bush wins I am leaving the US.. if he is the best we have ever had I don't want to hold out hope someone GOOD may come along someday, as the odds are clearly against it.

 

He can't say nuclear right. He can't give an answer without being told what to say. He even thinks it's a good thing someone has to work 3 jobs. I don’t care what choices* he made, he was not one of the best Americans, and to think he is insults all the people in this nation.

 

* More like the choices of his advisers, as he runs off to read a book when the nation is being attacked.

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I don't get why people are always saying they will leave if Bush does this or that, or if he wins an election, or whatever. I truly hope everyone who says that does not leave. We may not be a perfect country, but, it's better than some out there, like Iraq, for example*

 

*This is just my opinion, please don't flame me, or demote me, or anything.

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If Bush wins I am leaving the US.. if he is the best we have ever had I don't want to hold out hope someone GOOD may come along someday, as the odds are clearly against it.

 

He can't say nuclear right. He can't give an answer without being told what to say. He even thinks it's a good thing someone has to work 3 jobs. I don’t care what choices* he made, he was not one of the best Americans, and to think he is insults all the people in this nation.

 

* More like the choices of his advisers, as he runs off to read a book when the nation is being attacked.

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I don't get why people are always saying they will leave if Bush does this or that, or if he wins an election, or whatever. I truly hope everyone who says that does not leave. We may not be a perfect country, but, it's better than some out there, like Iraq, for example*

 

*This is just my opinion, please don't flame me, or demote me, or anything.

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Well, Bush does not have that much control. Even with a Republican majority in both Congress and Senate, he does not get his way. I would not pick him as the Greatest American, because there are just too many other people who have done so much more than him. In my opinion, he is just an average person in a not very average situation.

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THe ones I definately agree with being on the list are:

Neil Armstrong

Susan B. Anthony

Lucille Ball

Alexander Graham Bell

Frederick Douglass

Amelia Earhert

Albert Einstein

Thomas Edison

Ben Franklin

Henry Ford

John Glenn

Alexander Hamilton

Thomas Jefferson

Helen Keller

Charles Lindbergh

Abraham Lincoln

Rosa Parks

Patton (maybe)

Nikola Tesla

Mark Twain

George Washington

the Wright Brothers

and Chuck Yeager

 

There are a couple others that it is kind of cool to see them on the list, but these listed are the ones I think fit on the list of Greatest American. Scanning through this thread, I saw a few other suggestions and probably post a bit later on which I can definately agree with :frusty:

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Hey

didn't catch the list with the not being American but i'd be interested to hear where Martin Luther King Jr (personal hero) placed?

 

A good point made about native Americans earlier in the thread I thought

 

I don't think I'd say Michael Moore was great in the sense that I don't believe he does a great deal for investigative journalism. But I think there is a value to his work in that it raises important questions about political subjects in an easily accessible 'pop-culture' way. If that then inspires people to dig deeper and ask the questions that need to be asked (instead of the most popular question of the day being what really went on between Brad and Angelina!) then I think it's of value. We could all hope he was a proper investigative journalist but then he wouldn't get any airtime at all (see Greg Palast)!

No not a great American but better than Tom Cruise :yahoo:

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The greatest Canadian list must surely have included Constable Benton Fraser from "Due South" which is a show I absolutely loved. That dude did more to make Canada look cool than anyone else.  :laugh:

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IMO, one of the best shows that was ever on television. I was such a fan that I had a roommate at the time that managed to get a "promo poster" from CBS headquarter for me as a birthday gift. Anyway, I just watched the pilot - I loved that show. For some reason it didn't do that well in the US - or at least not with the right demographic :yahoo: I always thought that was because you sort of had to know something to understand all the humor in it and America - well, not exactly an intellectual oasis.

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I am compiling my own 100 Greatest Americans List. I know some will disagree with me, but I am looking at this from a historical viewpoint of their contibutions. I list few living Americans and incude people* AOL etc. left out.

Here's the first 50:

Click For Spoiler

1-5 Lincoln, Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Edison (on my previous postings)

6. Franklin Roosevelt

7. Martin Luther King, Jr.

8. James Madison*

9. Henry Ford

10. John Marshall*

11. Jonas Salk

12. The Wright Brothers

13. Albert Einstein

14. Thurgood Marshall*

15. James Watson*

16. Noah Webster*

17. Susan B. Anthony

18. Elizabeth Cady Stanton*

19. Muhammad Ali

20. Neil Armstrong

21. Louis Armstrong*

22. Henry D. Thoreau*

23. John James Audobon

24. Eli Whitney

25. Sitting Bull*

26. Audie Murphy

27. John Adams*

28. Andrew Carnegie

29. Eleanor Roosevelt

30. Clara Barton*

31. Caesar Chavez

32. Jane Addams*

33. Frederick Douglass

34. Alexander Hamilton

35. Alexander Graham Bell

36. John Muir*

37. Rachel Carson*

38. Harriet Tubman

39. Sojourner Truth*

40. Tecumseh*

41. Lewis and Clark*

42. Nikola Tesla

43. Samuel Gompers*

44. Robert Fulton

45. Rosa Parks

46. Ralph Waldo Emerson*

47. Horace Mann*

48. Linus Pauling*

49. Mark Twain

50. Georgia O'Keefe*

with more to come

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Trekz, I am curious what qualifications you use to determine if someone is "great" - I started another thread on this. I think I'll start my own list using my own criteria as well.

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Trekz, I am curious what qualifications you use to determine if someone is "great" - I started another thread on this.  I think I'll start my own list using my own criteria as well.

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Changed the world, nation, human race or science (mass scale only) for the bettor.

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Trekz, I am curious what qualifications you use to determine if someone is "great" - I started another thread on this.  I think I'll start my own list using my own criteria as well.

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Changed the world, nation, human race or science (mass scale only) for the bettor.

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For my Greatest 100 Americans (just 50 so far), I emphasized people who made a significant or lasting contribution to America. My undergraduate major was history, so I emphasize contibutions that were significant for their time or remain important today. I also emphasize making a positive contribution that improved people's lives or extended their rights. I include those that increased public awareness of a problem or helped solve that problem.

I feel American contributions in literature, music and art are significant so I included people in those fields. Since I am not an expert in those fields, some choices can be debated, but I chose those who have made significant or lasting contributions imo.

The AOL list emphasized popularity and twentieth century contributions. I try to reflect the range of American history and pick few living Americans. The test of time and expert review will determine who today can be added to the 100 Greatest Americans. As I continue to consider this list, it may change somewhat over time. For now it reflects much of what I consider significant contributions of some great Americans. There are many more who could be included in a longer list or in your own list :yahoo:

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Okay, trekz. I'm confused. You ranked Tecumseh #40 on your list and Tecumseh ranked #37 on the list of Greatest Canadians. He was technically born in what is now the United States but fought with the British in the War of 1812 and is honoured as a national hero in Canada. However, he did work to form a Native American alliance in the U.S. so I guess he can make both lists.

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Of the remaining 25 - I voted for Lincoln.

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So did I. And not because he 'freed the slaves.' I think as a leader he understood the nature of the conflict that threatened to destroy the country, and was able to give voice to the dilemma, as well as preside over the government and the conduct of the war.

 

 

I'm pleasantly surprised to see Muhammad Ali on the list - an Islamic draft dodger - who'd a thunk it.

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Part of Muhammad Ali's enduring popularity has to do with the times in which he was outspoken, ( a time when most blacks were perceived as humble and not very boistrous). He was a shocking figure to many because of his boldness. Other voices besides Dr. King's were beginning to be heard, and he falls into that camp. And his draft resistence actually cost him something --- the heavyweight championship and jail time. Many a wealthy American fled to Canada with little consequence. Some fled to branches of the service where they would see no action in the war.

After paying for what he viewed as conscientious objecting, he came back as world heavyweight champion, and was one of the world's greatest athletes at his peak.

 

While he does not get my vote, I understand why some people very seriously voted for him. And I do not view the choice of Ali in the same way I view choices like Madonna or Tom Cruise, which I consider to be driven by fame and not greatness.

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George Washington got my vote. He helped form the United States, not only as our first President (as he called his job, the Precedent) but he was also the leader of the Continental Army, and led Americans in the Revolutionary War. Without him, I don't think America today would even exist. there were other Generals, yes, but none like him.

 

I know some Americans would disagree, but I do think Robert E. Lee should be on the list. Yes, he fought for the Confederacy, and not for the United States, but he did so not because he believed in the Cause of the Southern Confederacy, but to defend his home. He said his loyalties lay with his home state of Virginia, and could not in good consience be a part of something that would be attacking his own home.

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The top (final) five candidates for Greatest American are (in alphabetical order by last name):

Benjamin Franklin

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Abraham Lincoln

Ronald Reagan

George Washington

 

George W. Bush came in 6th and Bill Clinton 7th.

 

"Celebrity" commentators were Dennis Miller, Randy Jackson and Ann Coulter!

Coulter lectured the Martin Luther King Jr. spokesman for not immediately emphasizing his being a Christian. I could only stand to watch about 10 minutes of it.

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The top (final) five candidates for Greatest American are (in alphabetical order by last name):

Benjamin Franklin

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Abraham Lincoln

Ronald Reagan

George Washington

 

George W. Bush came in 6th and Bill Clinton 7th. 

 

"Celebrity" commentators were Dennis Miller, Randy Jackson and Ann Coulter!

Coulter lectured the Martin Luther King Jr. spokesman for not immediately  emphasizing his being a Christian.  I could only stand to watch about 10 minutes of it.

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Interesting.

 

I voted for Franklin, Lincoln and Reagan.

 

Is next week the final "reveal"?

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I know some Americans would disagree, but I do think Robert E. Lee should be on the list. Yes, he fought for the Confederacy, and not for the United States, but he did so not because he believed in the Cause of the Southern Confederacy, but to defend his home. He said his loyalties lay with his home state of Virginia, and could not in good consience be a part of something that would be attacking his own home.

 

Agreed.

 

General Robert E. Lee should certainly have been in the list too.

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George Washington got my vote. He helped form the United States, not only as our first President (as he called his job, the Precedent) but he was also the leader of the Continental Army, and led Americans in the Revolutionary War. Without him, I don't think America today would even exist. there were other Generals, yes, but none like him.

 

I know some Americans would disagree, but I do think Robert E. Lee should be on the list. Yes, he fought for the Confederacy, and not for the United States, but he did so not because he believed in the Cause of the Southern Confederacy, but to defend his home. He said his loyalties lay with his home state of Virginia, and could not in good consience be a part of something that would be attacking his own home.

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Lee was a great General and had the chance to lead the Union Army. His home is one of if not the most revered landmarks in the United States but treason against the United States should disqualify a person from this list, whether it's Benedict Arnold, Robert E. Lee, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg or Jane Fonda. In my opinion they just don't deserve that honor.

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These are the results of 25 - 6 of the Greatest American:

 

25. Neil Armstrong

24. Henry Ford

23. Wright Bothers

22. Rosa Parks

21. Muhammad Ali

20. Lance Armstrong

19. Eleanor Roosevelt

18. Bill Gates

17. Bob Hope

16. John F. Kennedy

15. Thomas A. Edison

14. Albert Einstein

13. Walt Disney

12. Thomas Jefferson

11. Billy Graham

10. Franklin D. Roosevelt

9. Oprah Winfrey

8. Elvis Presley

7. Bill Clinton

6. George W. Bush

Edited by trekz

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