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headborg

Petition to Disavow "These Are the Voyages"

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I would like to start a petition to Disavow the existence of this "final" episode of Enterprise, we should all just shun it...I'm hoping the producers of the DVD collection will be kind enough to place it on a separete disk ..so i can just junk it....IT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!! The final scene of

Click For Spoiler
Trip & T'Pol together after the death of Elizabeth
is the real end of the series. Edited by Alterego

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Don't waste your energy, headborg. TATV is canon and it always will be. Not everyone disliked it as much as you did, BTW.

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Like it or not TATV is canon. I believe part of being a trek fan is embracing the entire franchise (on TV) and taking the good with the bad. Not just picking and choosing what you like and saying that is 'your' canon.

 

TATV may not have been the best way to send off Enterprise but it would have been the season finale had the show been renewed anyway. But TATV solidified the NX-01's place in trekdom and made a hero of Archer. IAMD also did this and established the superiority of TOS era tech.

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IAMD also did this and established the superiority of TOS era tech.

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?? please elaborate

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During the episodes "In A Mirror, Darkly, Part I and II", we saw that the Defiant's computer had personnel records for Archer, Hoshi, etc. which, as Jack said, further solidified the NX-01 as Trek history. The Defiant was said to have superiour technology and did defeat any ship that challenged her quite easily proving the TOS era technology superior to the NX-01's.

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I liked the episode, I disliked that it was the final episode but that had nothing to do with the episode itself.

 

There is so much more of the "Enterprise" story left untold but when I think back to the 4 seasons as a whole I am really pleased with the direction it took. I can't think of a single episode that I didn't like. There were episodes that I liked less then others but all in all I was very pleased with every single episode, including the last one.

 

For those that didn't like it you can hold on to the fact that the final episode of Enterprise was a Holodeck recreation of what their (TNG's) "history books" said happened. A "historical" holodeck program has a good chance of having a lot of errors in it. After all it was programed by a person and isn't an infallible recording of historical fact. It is a person's (or group of people) interpretation of a series of facts gathered from historical documents.

 

Therefore TPTB could always come back and "re-write" history and base it on the premise that the holodeck program had errors and was simply a fantasy representation of history rather then a factual representation of history.

 

But if things stay the way they are and the history of the NX-01 stays as it is right now I am satisfied. Disappointed because it ended when it did but satisfied.

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Sorry but I cannot support the idea to disavow TATV... Not because I like the episode, (I do but I'm not all that keen on it as a series finale) but because to support that may re-enforce the idea of de-canonizing all of ENT in the mind of its haters; I don't want to see that idea growing anymore momentum than it already has. I know that wont happen but a movement to try would imo further fracture the fans, healing is what's needed now.

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it should be left in. They've already said that if you don't like TATV to just consider the episode before it the final episode. :thumbs:

Edited by Gamera

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Headborg! Can you please use spoilers? The fourth season of Enterprise only aired about a month and a half ago over here. For those of us living in Europe who have just read your post now unwantingly know that Elizabeth dies. I don't want to know anything about an episode before I see it, please consider those who are watching the series in countries were it aired later than the U.S.

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Thanks to AE (I believe), and my apologies, Matt, for not noticing it sooner.

 

Even though I don't think it was a good series finale, it was still a decent episode (IMO). It is canon, but like others have said, details can get lost throughout history. You don't have to consider "TATV" to be a completely accurate representation of events. :laugh:

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Thre were things I liked about TATV, and things i didn't like.

Click For Spoiler
the whole skipping 6 years into the future got me. The whole thing with Shran made me feel like I had come into the middle of the series.

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Headborg! Can you please use spoilers? The fourth season of Enterprise only aired about a month and a half ago over here. For those of us living in Europe who have just read your post now unwantingly know that Elizabeth dies. I don't want to know anything about an episode before I see it, please consider those who are watching the series in countries were it aired later than the U.S.

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Sorry Matt, I often forget about the rest of the world, except my own back yard...(darn inconsiderate American I am) I'll try to remember next time, by the way, FYI all the 4th season Enterprise is avail on the internet for download FOR FREE...there's really no reason to have to wait to see it months later!

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I liked the episode, I disliked that it was the final episode but that had nothing to do with the episode itself.

 

There is so much more of the "Enterprise" story left untold but when I think back to the 4 seasons as a whole I am really pleased with the direction it took. I can't think of a single episode that I didn't like. There were episodes that I liked less then others but all in all I was very pleased with every single episode, including the last one.

 

For those that didn't like it you can hold on to the fact that the final episode of Enterprise was a Holodeck recreation of what their (TNG's) "history books" said happened. A "historical" holodeck program has a good chance of having a lot of errors in it. After all it was programed by a person and isn't an infallible recording of historical fact. It is a person's (or group of people) interpretation of a series of facts gathered from historical documents.

 

Therefore TPTB could always come back and "re-write" history and base it on the premise that the holodeck program had errors and was simply a fantasy representation of history rather then a factual representation of history.

 

But if things stay the way they are and the history of the NX-01 stays as it is right now I am satisfied. Disappointed because it ended when it did but satisfied.

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Well that is Food For Thought!...yes, it's totally logical and maybe Coto could write it all away as holographic errors...somebody tampered with historic records...I love it...now if only Spike TV, or Sci-Fi will just pick it up....(but only if TPTB=Manny Coto) and those other guys(B&:laugh: can be left along the road somewhere...maybe sent into the Expanse, anatomically inverted and splayed open while still alive! I thought it was just an absolute slap in the face...to have Riker and Troy hosting the finale, and the crew of Enterprise just interviewed as holo-ography,

Click For Spoiler
breaking up Trip & T'Pol and killing off the most beloved character was totally unnecessary

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I'm still on the second season somewhere (towards the end)...

 

Click For Spoiler
who the h... is Elizabeth? What so bad about the season finale. I don't mind if someone tells me.

 

BTW, onyl season 4 can be downloaded? Where? and what about season 1,2, 3??

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I'm still on the second season somewhere (towards the end)...

 

Click For Spoiler

 

BTW, onyl season 4 can be downloaded? Where? and what about season 1,2, 3??

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Click For Spoiler

 

As for downloading Season 4, you'd have to look for some Bit Torrent sites, I'm sure the season is on there.

 

If you can't find any Torrents then I'm sure someone around here has some links.

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I'm still on the second season somewhere (towards the end)...

 

Click For Spoiler

 

BTW, onyl season 4 can be downloaded? Where? and what about season 1,2, 3??

325667[/snapback]

 

If you want people's opinions on the series finale I would suggest you check out the thread in the Enterprise Ratings subforum.

 

As for you question regarding who that person is then check out the thread in the Enterprise Ratings subforum regarding the episodes Demons and Terra Prime.

 

There are a number of sites on the internet where you can illegally download episodes of Enterprise, such as TorrentReactor.net or TorrentSpy.com.

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Disavowing it works for me. I loathed "These Are The Voyages." :dude: I think it's the most sorry excuse for a series finale they could have come up with. Total laziness. Total contempt. What good does it do to say TATV was the franchise finale, not ENT's finale, when TATV undid every good thing Manny accomplished this season? That's just spin.

 

It ruined everything. :( B) I wasted four seasons liking this show. Every letter I wrote to save it was a waste and I regret writing every single one of them. I regret I ever started watching. The bashers were right. Sooner or later, Berman and Braga will put their stamp on it, they said, and they were right. Archer's place in history was already marked by "In a Mirror Darkly" by being in the Defiant's history computer. I don't care if it gives fodder for the decanonise ENT crowd. Berman and Braga wrote one episode and cast a pall over everything. They even made Will and Deanna into contemptuous, condescending jerks.

Edited by MoulinRouge

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While I worry about what might happen to continuity of the saga I am ready to back a petition to cause Rick Berman to step aside in favor of some fresh blood at the helm. I appreciate all he's done for Trek over the years but unless someone new is brought in to replace him, bigger problems will imo persist.

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I think that many artists have an initial burst of creativity that eventually runs out. Bruce Springsteen is such an example. When he first started out, everything he put out was fantastic. Then slowly, the quality declined. I feel the same has happened with Berman. When he first took over the franchise, he put out some really quality stuff. However, over the years, he has simply run out of ideas. Its not his fault. After so many years, its hard to come up with something new. Now is the time for someone fresh with new ideas to come in and take over the franchise.

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Disavowing it works for me.  I loathed "These Are The Voyages."  :dude:   I think it's the most sorry excuse for a series finale they could have come up with.  Total laziness.  Total contempt.   What good does it do to say TATV was the franchise finale, not ENT's finale, when TATV undid every good thing Manny accomplished this season?  That's just spin.

 

It ruined everything.   B)  :(   I wasted four seasons liking this show.   Every letter I wrote to save it was a waste and I regret writing every single one of them.  I regret I ever started watching.  The bashers were right.  Sooner or later, Berman and Braga will put their stamp on it, they said, and they were right.  Archer's place in history was already marked by "In a Mirror Darkly" by being in the Defiant's history computer.   I don't care if it gives fodder for the decanonise ENT crowd. Berman and Braga wrote one episode and cast a pall over everything.   They even made Will and Deanna into contemptuous, condescending jerks.

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I didn't come to the decision to start this thread lighty, and i didn't start it to "stir up more "hate and discontent"", but it just seems to be the best thing for me to do right now, (1) the episode is set 6years in the future after Terra Prime..and as VGB pointed out it's just a holodeck recreation of "historical facts"...so i feel it could be overlooked "shunned"...for example: after the original Battlestar Galactica...they tried to make a comeback--Galactica1980<<<most Galactica fans disavow it. Highlander 2<<<is another sci-fi example- some of us just try to pretend it didn't happen. Decanonizing all of Enterprise couldn't/wouldn't happen and would be a real shame....especially after the body of season 4 was really great! As for TATV being the franchise finale<<that's the first I've heard that suggested....No Way..to be a Franchise finale it should have included footage and a storyline that included ALL of the STAR TREK series! And since it didn't..that would be grounds for lynching B&B. If you liked the four seasons...I'd hardly call it a waste of time just because of one show.

I'm among the Bashers that did my share of Bashing, but I take heart in the fact that my bashing didn't cause the demise of the show, In fact, if I had a "Nelsons" rating box at home...it would have recorded atleast 1 more faithful fan that tuned in to watch....right up to the end. It's all the Trek fans that Tuned out and stopped watching, and the millions of non-trek fans that B&B's "experimental" ideals about making ST appeal to a wider audience (i.e. More T's&A, action/violence, cursing)which failed<<that's what caused the death.

It was too much for some parents(no longer totally appropriate for children) but not enough T&A, sex and violence to attract the mainstream. Maybe the next Star Trek will be a "reality" show.

Edited by headborg

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