First Impressions

[ussacclaim 0]

Ok, so has anyone seen this episode. What were you thinking when you first saw the McDuff character, and any other things associated with the plot?

 

I know for me personally, I didn't start watching TNG until its production has ended, and I saw them comletely out of order with no reference to where a particular episode was in a season. Additionally, I think I missed the first few minutes which are crucial to understanding the epidsode fully from the beginning. Therefore, I was like, who is that guy; Lysians, who are they; and what do you mean the Federation is at war?

 

I should mention I think I saw this episode after seeing the DS9 one where Worf joins that crew. Therefore, I knew the Enterprise-D had been destroyed but didn't know how, since I hadn't yet seen Generations. Therefore, I thought the war with the Lysians was what did it. Until I saw Generations, I was obsessed with finding out how the Enterprise met its fate.

 

The first time I saw "Cause and Effect" I thought I had found my explanation. Some time later though, I watched Generations and finally learned the truth.

[MrPsychic 1]

It was weird seeing Keiran MacDuff on the ship. I thought at first they had him as a new character. Also, it was interesting to see how Worf took over as commander of the ship before they had their memories restored.

[Takara_Soong 4]

It certainly was an interesting episode. The relationship between Riker and Ro just showed how true it is about their being a fine line between love and hate. It sort of came into play later in The Next Phase (the episode where Ro and Geordi were cloaked but everyone thought they were dead) and Riker was going to say a few words about Ro at the wake.

 

Watching Worf in that episode is actually kinda painful for me in a way but I can't really put it into words. It's almost like being embarassed on behalf of someone's actions. Plus it was soooo weird seeing Picard at the helm. lol

[Esther 0]

I didn't like McDuff. He didn't belong there.

[Mr.Picard 12]

That episode confused me when I saw it for the first time, but I like it a lot today... I do't like that McDuff guy, though. He just... he doesn't fit to the rest of the crew.

But Jean-Luc at the helm and Worf in the captain's chair, now that's something interesting.

[ilovedata 0]

I recently saw this episode, for the first time. I hope it is the same one I'm thinking of. Anyway - I was confused by the appearance of an unfamiliar character just after the beginning - at first, I thought he was a background character the whole time and I had just failed to notice, because well, I am like that sometimes. And the show is like that sometimes... a minor character will suddenly have a major role, if for only a single scene. So I didn't think much of it until I took note that the guy was clad in a red uniform of command and had begun directing orders, slyly, to the captain. After that I was very suspicious of his motives.

[M_5 0]

Not one of my favorite episodes.But the Riker-Ro thing was interesting,especially at the end in Ten Forward where Riker is clearly uncomfortable sitting with Ro and Troi.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Ok, so has anyone seen this episode.  What were you thinking when you first saw the McDuff character, and any other things associated with the plot?

 

319868[/snapback]

 

I knew right away he had everything to do with what was going on but that is not why I didn't like this one, what bugged me about it was the re-use of 'god-ship' model from Justice (season 1); it's presence in this one lead me to believe we were going to see the same alien (or whatever it/they were) from Justice but it turned out to be simple prop recycling. Did they really believe we wouldn't remember?

[KIMIMELA 1]

I haven't seen it.

[Matt 0]

I really like this episode but as soon as I saw the "Executive Commander", as I think his title was, I could guess what was going on.

[Aiya Quackform 0]

I agree that espisode is really confusing, particularly if you missed the beginning. But, it was really good because it gave us a lot of incite into the characters outside of their professional side.

[ussacclaim 0]

Ok, so has anyone seen this episode.  What were you thinking when you first saw the McDuff character, and any other things associated with the plot?

 

319868[/snapback]

 

I knew right away he had everything to do with what was going on but that is not why I didn't like this one, what bugged me about it was the re-use of 'god-ship' model from Justice (season 1); it's presence in this one lead me to believe we were going to see the same alien (or whatever it/they were) from Justice but it turned out to be simple prop recycling. Did they really believe we wouldn't remember? :lol:

334998[/snapback]

 

I agree with this.

Grrrrr

[gul_nodrog 2]

I like the episode, but I'm a big Ensign Ro Laren fan. I just think she's awesome and it was hilarious to see her and Riker "forgetting" that they hate each other and going at it like rabbits!

 

Some of the posts above seem to indicate that this Keiran MacDuff character is someone we should have known ... I didn't recognize the name or anything. Maybe I'm just misreading the posts. I thought it was kind of clever how they slipped him in there on us. I also liked how Worf just up and assumed command of the ship ... that was cool.

 

Sorry, but I never care about "recycling" props because ship styles are never what I am paying any attention to with the ST shows anyway. I wouldn't know the difference, really, between different ships within different species, except for maybe Klingon ships i.e. Bird of Prey vs. that other one you see from time to time.

 

Guess I'm not much of a Trekkie! LOL.

Edited July 2, 2005 by gul_nodrog

[VaBeachGuy 12]

It's been a while since this episode first aired but I can remember that my reaction was that I knew that he (McDuff) was the "bad guy" of the episode.

 

I remember while we were watching it and the crew was scanned and lost their memories and were looking around at everyone in a confused state and they showed McDuff in the background I immediately said to everyone in the room "Who the heck is that?"

 

It was a good episode, "Cause and Effect" was a great episode too.

[Takara_Soong 4]

I like the episode, but I'm a big Ensign Ro Laren fan.  I just think she's awesome and it was hilarious to see her and Riker "forgetting" that they hate each other and going at it like rabbits!

 

Some of the posts above seem to indicate that this Keiran MacDuff character is someone we should have known ... I didn't recognize the name or anything.  Maybe I'm just misreading the posts.  I thought it was kind of clever how they slipped him in there on us.  I also liked how Worf just up and assumed command of the ship ... that was cool.

 

Sorry, but I never care about "recycling" props because ship styles are never what I am paying any attention to with the ST shows anyway.  I wouldn't know the difference, really, between different ships within different species, except for maybe Klingon ships i.e. Bird of Prey vs. that other one you see from time to time.

336796[/snapback]

 

I agree regarding Riker and Ro. It really showed that fine line between love and hate. lol

 

I agree with your comments regarding Keiran MacDuff as well. As for Worf, I still cringe when I watch him do that. It's like I feel embarrassed for him.

 

Honestly, I didn't even realize it was the same ship used in Justice and Conundrum until I read this thread and then checked some pictures.

[Takara_Soong 4]

More thoughts on this episode?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

Since everybody's memories had been erased and computer records altered, why didn't they simply make McDuff the Captain instead of the XO?

[Mr.Picard 12]

Since everybody's memories had been erased and computer records altered, why didn't they simply make McDuff the Captain instead of the XO?

 

Maybe the aliens feared some sort of mutiny if MacDuff had been made captain and had started to order them to destroy more and more ships that were no match for the Enterprise... I mean maybe they thought the crew would instinctively trust Jean-Luc, so they thought they'd have to put MacDuff into a position from which he could have a huge influence on Jean-Luc's decisions. I simply assume they thought the crew would instinctively follow Jean-Luc's instructions much more easily than MacDuff's...

[Hooray for boobies 0]

Not one of my favourite episodes. I suppose it was too easy to guess what was going to happen in the end.

 

The episode never had me confused about McDuff either. And perhaps in the end the destruction of the unremarkable Lysians was not a satisfactory motive for the otherwise interesting premiss.

 

I can't remember McDuff as a particularly interesing character either. But then as I can't remember I suppose that doesn't say anything.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I loath this episode for so many reasons I cannot list them all but the main reason is the effects staff reuse of the "god" station from the episode Justice. I wasted allot of time trying to determine if there were some story based connection between the two episodes before finally admitting to myself I'd been duped.

[Takara_Soong 4]

Since everybody's memories had been erased and computer records altered, why didn't they simply make McDuff the Captain instead of the XO?

If McDuff had been made captain then it would have changed the consequences if something went wrong. If McDuff's plan had succeeded then the Federation and Picard would be blamed and the Satarrans would have had plausible deniability.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

Maybe the aliens feared some sort of mutiny if MacDuff had been made captain and had started to order them to destroy more and more ships that were no match for the Enterprise... I mean maybe they thought the crew would instinctively trust Jean-Luc, so they thought they'd have to put MacDuff into a position from which he could have a huge influence on Jean-Luc's decisions. I simply assume they thought the crew would instinctively follow Jean-Luc's instructions much more easily than MacDuff's...

 

But they didn't instinctively trust Picard. They instinctly trusted Worf.

 

If McDuff had been made captain then it would have changed the consequences if something went wrong. If McDuff's plan had succeeded then the Federation and Picard would be blamed and the Satarrans would have had plausible deniability.

How do you define "wrong"? From McDuff's view "wrong" meant loosing the war, and that happened anyway. The only way for the Satarrans to not have plausable deniability is if McDuff never set foot on the ship.

 

What advantage would plausible deniability bring anyway? There isn't really any kind of Galactic UN to sort these things out.

[Takara_Soong 4]

How do you define "wrong"? From McDuff's view "wrong" meant loosing the war, and that happened anyway.

What happened in the episode would be one scenario of something going wrong. There would be many other possible negative outcomes that could have occurred.

The only way for the Satarrans to not have plausable deniability is if McDuff never set foot on the ship.

Not true. Their government would have just brought out the same line that has been used by governments throughout history - McDuff was acting on his own accord and the Satarrans did not authorize or condone his actions in any way...yadda yadda

What advantage would plausible deniability bring anyway? There isn't really any kind of Galactic UN to sort these things out.

There is no galactic UN but that doesn't mean that the Satarrans would not have faced some type of retribution or retaliation from the Federation. The degree of that retaliation/retribution would not be as great with a Starfleet captain in charge compared to an impostor IMO.

[DaboGirl 7]

Great episode!

 

I got a kick out Data thinking he was a bartender, because he was behind the bar in Ten Forward when everyone's memory got wiped.

Next Gen was top notch!

 

Edited July 8, 2008 by DaboGirl