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Dr_Natuile

T'Pol

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To me, it seems that T'Pol was simply used just to bring ratings up (remember the phrase "Sex sells"?). I'm not sure if there was a logical (no pun intended) reason for T'Pol to end up having a relationship with anyone, but maybe I'm missing something... am I? :P

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Well, remember when Voyager added Seven of Nine? Their ratings went up. At least Enterprise didn't take it to the extreme Voyager did and turn it into the Jolene Blalock Show.

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Well, remember when Voyager added Seven of Nine?  Their ratings went up.  At least Enterprise didn't take it to the extreme Voyager did and turn it into the Jolene Blalock Show.

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Yeah, but the thing is - it's STAR TREK! It shouldn't have to add things such as that just for ratings. They should have pride in themselves! To tell the truth, I didn't really like it after TNG anyway -.- :P

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It's just the turning tide of television. Look at the Ed Sullivan Show, they didn't film Elvis below the waist. Besides, there's always that stereotype that Star Trek fans are men who live alone in small apartments, or in the basement of their mom's house. So that's how Seven and T'Pol might have come around.

 

Congrads on your promotion Natuile.

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Jolene Blalock has a nice body and such, but really that's all her character had going for it. Seven Of Nine was beautiful, but a strong character too. Whereas the addition of Seven improved VOY, on ENT the inclusion of "T'Porn" simply looked like a gratuitous character chosen simply because she'd look good in a tight outfit.

 

This was demonstrated in the FIRST episode when T'Porn got her pointed little ears rubbed down with gel in Sick Bay wearing her underwear and a tight tank top with her rock hard nipples sticking out.

 

Braga and Berman may as well have just flashed the words "LOOK EVERYONE, BREASTS!!!!" in big red writing with flashing lights around it on screen and played the soundtrack to a 1970's porn movie in the background.

 

It would have been more subtle.

 

:P

Edited by The King

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Well, remember when Voyager added Seven of Nine?  Their ratings went up.  At least Enterprise didn't take it to the extreme Voyager did and turn it into the Jolene Blalock Show.

310246[/snapback]

 

Yeah, but the thing is - it's STAR TREK! It shouldn't have to add things such as that just for ratings. They should have pride in themselves! To tell the truth, I didn't really like it after TNG anyway -.- :P

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It shouldn't but unfortunately being strapped to the cinder block that is UPN forced both Enterprise and Voyager to try and use sex to boost their. But its not like such things are new to Trek though, the miniskirts of TOS, Troi's uniform which could be seen as a pre-curser to Seven and T'pol, and the two girl-on-girl kisses on DS9 (granted one was appropriate to the story line, the other was not necessary but it fit) and I think Leeta could be thrown into this category but then again she wasn't a major character.

 

The only show I have ever seen that might be above the sex for ratings is The West Wing (but I've only watched recently).

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Yeah, but the thing is - it's STAR TREK! It shouldn't have to add things such as that just for ratings. They should have pride in themselves! To tell the truth, I didn't really like it after TNG anyway -.- :P

310247[/snapback]

It shouldn't but unfortunately being strapped to the cinder block that is UPN forced both Enterprise and Voyager to try and use sex to boost their. But its not like such things are new to Trek though, the miniskirts of TOS, Troi's uniform which could be seen as a pre-curser to Seven and T'pol, and the two girl-on-girl kisses on DS9 (granted one was appropriate to the story line, the other was not necessary but it fit) and I think Leeta could be thrown into this category but then again she wasn't a major character.

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I agree that Trek shouldn't have to use sex to improve rating but they have. At least 7 of 9 did have more depth than T'pol seemed to have making her sexuality the most memorable part of her character imo.

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  Besides, there's always that stereotype that Star Trek fans are men who live alone in small apartments

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Uhhhh.......aren't you a guy that lives alone in a small apartment?........lol

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Oh goody, a thread where I can actually say what I think.

 

I agree with much of what The King said, only I don't think VOY was better after it became the Seven of Nine Show - but I do think Seven was a more interesting character than T'Pol. And Ryan was definitely a better actor than Blalock.

 

Yes, T'Pol existed for the sole purpose of being a sextoy in a catsuit. I think the biggest problem with that was trying to make a Vulcan a sextoy - a Denobulan female in a catsuit would seem believable - a Vulcan does not. As it is they had to destroy much of what we had held near and dear regarding Vulcans and that really turned off a lot of people.

 

The real opinions that matter are those 9 million viewers that dropped off from the premiere to this season. What was it that turned them off. I know at least one I know mentioned T'Pol as a reason they couldn't stand the show. I don't know if it was the fault of the writers', director or Blalock's bad acting but T'Pol was not unemotional as a Vulcan should be - she was a b----, not the same thing.

 

Sad to say - T'Pol is the primary reason that I ceased caring if they cancel the show. If Scifi does pick it up - I hope they have some character changes.

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As it is they had to destroy much of what we had held near and dear regarding Vulcans and that really turned off a lot of people. 

 

The real opinions that matter are those 9 million viewers that dropped off from the premiere to this season.  What was it that turned them off.  I know at least one I know mentioned T'Pol as a reason they couldn't stand the show.  I don't know if it was the fault of the writers', director or Blalock's bad acting but T'Pol was not unemotional as a Vulcan should be - she was a b----,  not the same thing. 

 

Sad to say - T'Pol is the primary reason that I ceased caring if they cancel the show.  If Scifi does pick it up - I hope they have some character changes.

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Totally agreed with that - T'Pol is the main reason I turned from the show. I tried to be optimistic for a while, but it just didn't work out... aside from the constant timeline contradictions and bad directing and T'Pol, the show was alright... only good things were that it was Star Trek (although some would tend to argue that) and Porthos.

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Totally agreed with that - T'Pol is the main reason I turned from the show. I tried to be optimistic for a while, but it just didn't work out... aside from the constant timeline contradictions and bad directing and T'Pol, the show was alright... only good things were that it was Star Trek (although some would tend to argue that) and Porthos.

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Bad directing? So many of the directors used on Enterprise have been veteran Trek directors. I disagree about bad directing.

 

Personally, I like T'Pol and disagree with those who feel she is not a strong female character.

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I also watch the program in spite of T'pol, and a lot of other disappointments about the show, in order to support Star Trek, and strengthen the hand of those that do enjoy the show completely.

 

I have episodes I love, but I do not plan to buy the all but the first season's dvd's because of things I od not like.

 

I do not see T'pol as a good role model for women.

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I loathe T'Pol.

 

For very much the same reasons as Jolene herself has inimated. This whole arc over Season 3 and 4 has seriously weakened the character. There absolutely no basis for her to have a relatioship with anyone and the one they chose to pursue was a disaster because it so damaged the other character's involvement in the storylines. Episode after episode all we got of Trip was in relation to scenes with her. The trellium d addiction was a rather silly story device to basically turn her into a human so they could get her clothes off. If all they wanted was a sex kitten in a cat suit, that is what they should have written - not a Vulcan. I thought all the nonsense would be over and done with after the wedding in 'Home' but no - they are dragging it out until the last.

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Guys.... its been a Trek tradition to have tightly clothed, hot lookin ladies in the show (with the exception of TNG).

 

I mean Kirk was a one man, alien *lovin machine!! And look at the outfits all the ladies wore (Damn those skirts were short).

 

I do agree that Trek really doesnt need the skin.... but it has been there all along.

 

And I think the romance with T'Pol kind of shows how a Vulcan and Human can have a relationship and even love.... just think about Spock's parents...there had to be some kind of flame there between them.

Edited by Ace

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There was more to Seven than just her body, she was a great character. She was a character with an interesting history and we were able to see her development throughout the series. The character was humorous, intelligent and charming.

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Guys.... its been a Trek tradition to have tightly clothed, hot lookin ladies in the show (with the exception of TNG).

 

I mean Kirk was a one man, alien *lovin machine!!  And look at the outfits all the ladies wore (Damn those skirts were short).

 

I do agree that Trek really doesnt need the skin.... but it has been there all along.

 

And I think the romance with T'Pol kind of shows how a Vulcan and Human can have a relationship and even love.... just think about Spock's parents...there had to be some kind of flame there between them.

 

Jackpot. :P

 

 

I don't know where all the aversion to sexuality on ENT came from, it's been present from the start. The weirdest part is I sometimes witness the same people who freak out over T'Pols sexcapades turning around and being naughty & saying sexual things on other topics both here and at other forums. :lol: :wow: A double standard certainly exists for some fans in this area.

 

I knew all along there had to be good reason for her actions and was proven right with the Vulcan arc. Yes it was a little strange seeing some of the things she did but she was not the same kind of Vulcan as we've known before. I hold nothing against the producers taking her in the seemingly awkward direction they did, (though the UPN suits probably had more to do with her overt sexuality than B&B did) she was from a different time of Vulcan.

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Oh goody, a thread where I can actually say what I think.

 

I agree with much of what The King said, only I don't think VOY was better after it became the Seven of Nine Show - but I do think Seven was a more interesting character than T'Pol.  And Ryan was definitely a better actor than Blalock. 

 

Yes, T'Pol existed for the sole purpose of being a sextoy in a catsuit.  I think the biggest problem with that was trying to make a Vulcan a sextoy -  a Denobulan female in a catsuit would seem believable - a Vulcan does not.  As it is they had to destroy much of what we had held near and dear regarding Vulcans and that really turned off a lot of people. 

 

The real opinions that matter are those 9 million viewers that dropped off from the premiere to this season.  What was it that turned them off.  I know at least one I know mentioned T'Pol as a reason they couldn't stand the show.  I don't know if it was the fault of the writers', director or Blalock's bad acting but T'Pol was not unemotional as a Vulcan should be - she was a b----,  not the same thing. 

 

Sad to say - T'Pol is the primary reason that I ceased caring if they cancel the show.  If Scifi does pick it up - I hope they have some character changes.

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I totally agree. I think 7 of 9s back story was a lot more interesting than T'pols imo. Plus for some reason I dont know if it was the way the character was written or Blalock herself but she seemed to project a aura of arrogance.

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I don't know where all the aversion to sexuality on ENT came from, it's been present from the start.

 

It's the sex for the sake of sex - it's the belief that sex alone makes a relationship that's the turnoff. Other characters in other series were much more sexually active - but at least most of them had some natural affection for the object of their sexual activity. Maybe not Kirk but TOS was filmed in the sixties before people realized that women are people too. :P Or if both characters know they're both in it just for the sex - Riker comes to mind.

 

Click For Spoiler
And let's not forget T'Pol's attraction to Trip was drug induced - and we're still waiting to find out just how messed up he is because of her lack of control - those mind meld repercussions. Oh, well dead horse.

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Sex for the sake of it and drug induced relationships are a very real and current events. I know because I have a son in college keeping him-self out of those situations but even if I didn't have him as a barometer I would still know it is true from news sources; sexual recreational drugs are still a big deal these days.

 

T'pol was the best character for use in conveying that message; it was with her the Human condition (in a much rawer more natural way than with 7 imo) was being explored this time.

 

Granted it could be said B&B bit-off a little more than they could chew this time delving into areas they were not fully prepared to properly explore but it's wasn't handled so poorly as most think. There is a reason why ENT has fans, we understand it differently than it detractors do.

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Sex for the sake of it and drug induced relationships are a very real and current events. I know because I have a son in college keeping him-self out of those situations but even if I didn't have him as a barometer I would still know it is true from news sources; sexual recreational drugs are still a big deal these days.

 

T'pol was the best character for use in conveying that message; it was with her the Human condition (in a much rawer more natural way than with 7 imo) was being explored this time.

 

Granted it could be said B&B bit-off a little more than they could chew this time delving into areas they were not fully prepared to properly explore but it's wasn't handled so poorly as most think. There is a reason why ENT has fans, we understand it differently than it detractors do.

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AE, your post was making a good point until the second to the last word. :P Then you undid your entire point. You could also argue there is a reason why ENT lost fans - a lot more than it kept. And because it alienated those people we all lost on the good parts of what was ENT as well.

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I don't know. I see the value of adding a beautiful girl to the show. I see the value of dressing her in a sexy outfit. As someone said, sex sells. Even going outside of Trek you find this on most shows. Atlantis has what's her name. Boston Legal has three beautiful girls. This is something you find on almost all shows.

 

I think it was a mistake to try to use a Vulcan for this. If they wanted to do a sexy woman they could have easily done this as the helmsperson or such.

 

The problems with Enterprise, though, went way beyond this issue. What's really sad is I am convinced that Paramount could put out a wildly popular Trek show if they put some real effort into it and stopped trying to just take the simple way out.

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Jackpot.  :P

I don't know where all the aversion to sexuality on ENT came from, it's been present from the start. The weirdest part is I sometimes witness the same people who freak out over T'Pols sexcapades turning around and being naughty & saying sexual things on other topics both here and at other forums. :lol: :P A double standard certainly exists for some fans in this area.

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There is a difference. The difference is that we have less and less left to the imagination. There is less and less that is age-sensitive. If we do not want to focus on that aspect of the character, it is more difficult than it has ever been in Enterprise.

 

When I watched TOS while it aired, I did not know what was going on beyond the fact that Kirk kissed a lot of women. I know now, but my parents did not have to prevent us at that time from watching TOS because nothing we saw or heard would have undermined how we were being raised, and our level of maturity. I understand now what was going on then because I am an adult.

 

With ENT you would have to explain to your ten to eleven year old what was going on, if you let them watch it.

 

I do not avoid material just because it has adult themes, because I am an adult. I do avoid regularly watching gratuitous violence and gratuitous sex. Most of the modern series I watch, I may watch one in five episodes because I feel much of the content is crass. I watch Enterprise in spite of feeling that a significant portion fits into that category. I still think the majority of Enterprise is true to Star Trek, and some wonderful ideas have been put forth in many episodes which are just as good as anything previously done with Star Trek. I was just thinking about the episode where Hoshi, with help form T'pol, had to figure out how to communicate with an alien entity that had attached itself to Archer, Trip, and two other crewman in a cargo bay. There was also a problem with miscommunicating with another alien species. I think that episode was rich in ideas about communication and misunderstanding, and relationships.

 

If I had my preferences, ENT would show intimate relationships in the same manner that TOS did, which would let the adults understand the adult aspects, and the children what they could absorb. And this is not objecting to adult relationships per se.

 

With regard to double standards, I think there is such a tendency to think in a certain way now, that people have a tendency to read content into posts that was not intended. I saw a thread shut down where probably two of the posts were actually meant to imply sexual meaning, and the rest were saying something else. One of the posts that could have been construed to have an underlying sexual meaning, if one took the time to look at the young age of, and rather consistent posting of, this individual who wrote it, would never construe that post to mean anything than what it was talking about explicitly. But just looking at the post, and using today's :wow: interpretation of a single phrase in the post, could easily lead one to think that something else was said. That is unfortunate, and such an interpretation was erroneous.

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could i say one thing? make it a couple...

 

as far as my opinion: i agree with AE and FAAmecanic - sexuality is a part of the overall life experience here on earth - fancy we should see it expressed in modern art forms, eh?

 

as far as T'Pol, i think Jolene did a wonderful job portraying the pre-Spock totally-devoid-of human-genes-emotionless-one - this actress had to come up with a character that showed NO emotion, and had to set the 'pre-quel' tone to our view of Vulcan-ness - is her character not from the period before Vulcan's have fully explored their psyche? - i keep hearing that Jolene had the emotions of a fish - THAT WAS HER CHARACTER...

 

i don't see anyone complaining too loudly about the dregs of Quantam Leap, Mr. Bakula, or how many times we the viewer were graced by his hairy pecs, of COURSE in comparison to other 'favourites', like Riker (oops, no chest), Sisko (oops, no chest), and the emotionless, yet lovable, Tuvok (oops, no chest)...ah well, at least we got to see Scott's amazing chest and arms - 'twas HIS less than stellar acting talent i could have done without...

 

if Space does pick up ENT, lose the over-dramatic Captain, not the pointy eared lovely - Archer's what sucked about ENT...

 

IM humble O...

Edited by mj

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Okay I deleted my thread .... I am speechless at the "attitude" of people on this thread.

 

You dont' have to love everything TPTB did to be a fan. I've a trekkie longer than most of you have been alive and I resent they destroyed a show I enjoyed.

Edited by TheUnicornHunter

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You know.... its people like Spock that makes me love Vulcans. Then again... its T'Pol that makes me hate them. Either her scripts are bad or she really showed them in a pretty bad light - imo

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Just a warning to posters: STAY ON TOPIC.

 

The topic is T'pol. The topic is not whether or not we approve of one another's opinions.

 

Feel free to disagree and challenge each other on content about T'pol: good role model, bad role model, in the tradition tightly clothed women, not in the tradition of tightly clothed women, good Vulcan, not a good Vulcan, whatever!

 

Discuss contrary opinions....do not attack the person because they hold contrary opinions.

 

Some people love T'pol. Some people despise T'pol. Fine.

 

Just do not let that spill out into openly attacking other members for an opinion.

 

This is a warning from the moderator.

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