Battle Fatigue

[MrPsychic 1]

I think they should have focused a bit more on the mental issue of a long drawn out war, the only episode I saw was Nor the Battle to the Strong with Jake snapping. Who else thinks they could have spent a few episodes talking about officers who were really shaken up by their experiences? They may have talked about it in later seasons, I didn't watch all the episodes.

[Matt 0]

I'm glad they didn't. There were already referances and stories popping up now and then from the regular characters. I think talking about the psychological effects would have slowed it all down too much.

[HRH The KING 0]

Nog experienced trauma after he lost his leg and there were references to low morale after reading endless casualty lists.

[MrPsychic 1]

Maybe they could have done an episode where Odo investigates the death of a crewman, only to see that he died of suicide caused by the battles he was in. If DS9 was on today, it could tie into the war going on in Iraq. Besides, there was another mention of suicide in Star Trek, in TNG. I forget the episode name, but it dealt with Troi and Ensign Kwan.

[HRH The KING 0]

Maybe they could have done an episode where Odo investigates the death of a crewman, only to see that he died of suicide caused by the battles he was in. If DS9 was on today, it could tie into the war going on in Iraq.

 

Both excellent ideas.

 

They can be used in a future incarnation of Trek.

 

Besides, there was another mention of suicide in Star Trek, in TNG. I forget the episode name, but it dealt with Troi and Ensign Kwan.

 

It was called "Eye Of The Beholder".

Edited February 20, 2005 by The King

[MrPsychic 1]

Maybe they could have done an episode where Odo investigates the death of a crewman, only to see that he died of suicide caused by the battles he was in. If DS9 was on today, it could tie into the war going on in Iraq.

 

Both excellent ideas.

 

They can be used in a future incarnation of Trek.

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See, I'm not just a flaming liberal, I have good ideas too.

[HRH The KING 0]

You certainly do.

 

Star Trek should always tackle real world events and situations like war.

 

And, it should never be afraid to address social issues like suicide.

[Matt 0]

Now hold on there. What's this I see? The King agreeing with someone! What's the world coming to?

[HRH The KING 0]

Hey, I can agree with good ideas.

 

I can also oppose bad ones.

[MrPsychic 1]

::shows everyone his wrists and neck:: see, no marks, even after all this stuff I've been through.

[Jack_Bauer 1]

Maybe they could have done an episode where Odo investigates the death of a crewman, only to see that he died of suicide caused by the battles he was in. If DS9 was on today, it could tie into the war going on in Iraq. Besides, there was another mention of suicide in Star Trek, in TNG. I forget the episode name, but it dealt with Troi and Ensign Kwan.

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Field of Fire dealt with that idea. That's when the Vulcan who was among 5 survivors of a ship of 1200, murdered 3 crewmen on DS9.

 

The really funny thing about that episode is that is about as close to CSI as Star Trek has ever been (and there have been some close eps especially when Tuvok investigated crimes) and the ship the Vulcan came from was the U.S.S. Grissom. However, this ep aired at least a year prior to the launch of CSI and William Petersen changed his character's name to Grissom from Schielbaum. The coincidence comes fromthe fact that both the ship and the character were named for Apollo 1 astronaut Gus Grissom.

[Angela 1]

Now hold on there. What's this I see? The King agreeing with someone! What's the world coming to?

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Hard not to agree with Justin (Mr. Psychic)

[Captain Ericks 0]

'Siege at AR-558' was an outstanding episode show casing the battle hardening which occurs in a war. It was also the episode where Nog lost his leg. The most WWII like episode of the Dominion War arc that I saw.

[Sam The Smuggler 1]

'Siege at AR-558' was an outstanding episode show casing the battle hardening which occurs in a war. It was also the episode where Nog lost his leg. The most WWII like episode of the Dominion War arc that I saw.

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I Loved That Episode. Very Well Done. I Particuarly Enjoyed Seeing Quark Defend His Nephew (Or Maybe Just Getting Even) By Shooting That Jem'Hadar.

[MrPsychic 1]

What I don't get about Field of Fire was the fact that the USS Grissom went into combat with a full crew of 1250. I wouldn't have taken a full crew into combat, they lost a lot of good men ad women that way.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

What I don't get about Field of Fire was the fact that the USS Grissom went into combat with a full crew of 1250.  I wouldn't have taken a full crew into combat, they lost a lot of good men ad women that way.

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The idea of taking a full crew into battle is that it provides for the ship's best chances of survival. Your statement implies that Starfleet Command sent the ship into battle knowing all hands would be lost (and maybe that was the case, I didn't see the episode) which is a defeatist attitude. Will there be casualties in battle? Sure. But minimizing the crews of the ships you send into battle only makes things more dangerous for the crews you do send.

 

Or maybe the 1250 included civilians? That WOULD be dumb.

[Gary Phaserman 0]

if the ship is designed for Combat, then the 1250 include not only the people manning the combat systems (Weapons, sheilds, sensors, countermeasure, and defensive systems) but also important non-combattant roles, such as medical aide, Damage Control, and the like. I know in the Navy, everyone is a firefighter, and I would expect Starfleet would have similar requirements, such as everyone be able to put out a fire, or help fix a damaged bulkhead or something.

 

To me, the Dominion war seemed alot like World War II. THe Jem'Hadar really reminded me alot of what I've read and studied about the Japanese soldiers during the Pacific campaign. AR-558 was probably used to strengthen that resemblance, and with Nog being injured, it showed that the main charactors were not invulnerable.

[MrPsychic 1]

The Grissom was an Excelsior class starship, not really designed for combat. I would have maybe manned more than a skeletan crew, that way more crews for more ships.

[mj 7]

Remember in the first episode, The Emissary, Commander Sisko was coming out of his long struggle in dealing with the loss of Jennifer, his wife, at the battle of Wolf 359. The very first episode dealt with an aftermath of battle...dealing with loss. The prophets forced Sisko to face the fact that he was trapped with that memory of his dead wife. That is another example, besides Jake Sisko's fear of war, of war's affect on people that was dealt with in the series. And it was good that Sisko's case referred back to Wolf 359 so that we see an example of a federation officer dealing with the result of that particluar battle. We now know that some officers who survived defeat were able to recover and resetablish their careers.

 

While Wolf 359 was not part of a prolonged war, it did create some of the difficulties that would have to be faced by those in a protracted conflict, namely how to handle loss.

 

In the stf cite's favorite episode, In the Pale Moonlight, the actions of Sisko were motivated by the endless ritual of searching casualty lists for friends. That is how the whole sordid affair began. Looking more closely at this episode would demonstrate another repsonse to the loss experienced in a prolonged war...compromising one's values in order to gain an advatange that might eventually lead to the end of the conflict. this is another situation where the consequences of war was examined in the series.

[krysis 2]

if the ship is designed for Combat, then the 1250 include not only the people manning the combat systems (Weapons, sheilds, sensors, countermeasure, and defensive systems) but also important non-combattant roles, such as medical aide, Damage Control, and the like. I know in the Navy, everyone is a firefighter, and I would expect Starfleet would have similar requirements, such as everyone be able to put out a fire, or help fix a damaged bulkhead or something.

 

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Just wondering...

 

How many does it actually take to fly a starship? I mean minimum number of people. Lets say, for a Sovereign class, a Galaxy, Excelsior, Constitution, Intrepid and Defiant class? In real life, how many does it actually take to man an aircraft carrier? SSN? or a Destroyer in the Navy?

[Gary Phaserman 0]

if the ship is designed for Combat, then the 1250 include not only the people manning the combat systems (Weapons, sheilds, sensors, countermeasure, and defensive systems) but also important non-combattant roles, such as medical aide, Damage Control, and the like. I know in the Navy, everyone is a firefighter, and I would expect Starfleet would have similar requirements, such as everyone be able to put out a fire, or help fix a damaged bulkhead or something.

 

305022[/snapback]

 

Just wondering...

 

How many does it actually take to fly a starship? I mean minimum number of people. Lets say, for a Sovereign class, a Galaxy, Excelsior, Constitution, Intrepid and Defiant class? In real life, how many does it actually take to man an aircraft carrier? SSN? or a Destroyer in the Navy?

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What you refere to is the Skeleton Crew, the minimum number of personnel required for a ship to conduct it's job. I'd say the general rule is probably 1/5 to 1/10 the normal crew load, depending on how much automation a ship has. a Galaxy class Starship may be able to operate with a Skeleton Crew of 100. a Navy Guided Missile Cruiser, probably 90-100. it just depends on the design.

[krysis 2]

if the ship is designed for Combat, then the 1250 include not only the people manning the combat systems (Weapons, sheilds, sensors, countermeasure, and defensive systems) but also important non-combattant roles, such as medical aide, Damage Control, and the like. I know in the Navy, everyone is a firefighter, and I would expect Starfleet would have similar requirements, such as everyone be able to put out a fire, or help fix a damaged bulkhead or something.

 

305022[/snapback]

 

Just wondering...

 

How many does it actually take to fly a starship? I mean minimum number of people. Lets say, for a Sovereign class, a Galaxy, Excelsior, Constitution, Intrepid and Defiant class? In real life, how many does it actually take to man an aircraft carrier? SSN? or a Destroyer in the Navy?

310469[/snapback]

 

I suppose one can't just turn the key and drive the starship away.

What you refere to is the Skeleton Crew, the minimum number of personnel required for a ship to conduct it's job. I'd say the general rule is probably 1/5 to 1/10 the normal crew load, depending on how much automation a ship has. a Galaxy class Starship may be able to operate with a Skeleton Crew of 100. a Navy Guided Missile Cruiser, probably 90-100. it just depends on the design.

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Deltans!

310467[/snapback]

 

 

Then humanity could spend the next few century being taken advantage of by a sexually superior race. (and love every minute of it, but we would be too 'busy' to ever explore space :P )

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[the_ocompa 0]

lol

[MrPsychic 1]

If a Galaxy class can run on 100 people, then an Excelsior should be barebones at what, 50 or 60?

[Jim Phaserman 0]

Maybe, maybe not. assuming the Excelsior class was produced at the same time as the Galaxy class, yeah, or has been upgraded. if not, probably 100-150.

[the_ocompa 0]

the Enterprise Constitution Refit Was controlled by only 4 people, in the search for spock...Normally this wouldn't work, because they wouldn't be able to repair the ship....

[MrPsychic 1]

It's fun to watching topics spiral horrible off topic. :angry: This started out as war trama, and now it's on starships and skeletan crews.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

the Enterprise Constitution Refit Was controlled by only 4 people, in the search for spock...Normally this wouldn't work, because they wouldn't be able to repair the ship....

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Scotty also spent a great deal of time rewiring the ship to be able to do that. And the ship was very combat-ineffective, as was seen.