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Jack_Bauer

Enterprise finale news

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Jolene Blalock was right.

 

That last episode sounds like a disaster.

 

It's so bad that I've heard many ENT fans will BOYCOTT it.

 

My comrades at "Kill Enterprise" have already noticed the irony.

 

:angry: :look:

Edited by The King

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Yes, it does sound like a disaster. In fact, Morpheus also used the adjective "appalling" to describe it. I'm not kidding. Morpheus used to make fun of us for prejudging episodes and he's using words like "appalling." He also called it a disaster. At this point, they'd be better off calling Bakula back into the studio to perform a two minute voice over "epilogue" and stick it on the end of the preceding episode. Something like "the federation was formed a few years later, after much heartache and sacrifice....etc. etc." Something similar. It might seem incomplete, but this finalé has the potential to turn ever dwindling numbers of trek fans off of Trek for good. I just can't get emotionally invested in Trek anymore. I'm not even angry at this point. I'm just numb. What is the point if the disaster twins can step in once and ruin everything? Berman is going to executive produce Trek XI about the Romulan wars with a brand new crew with no connection to anyone. I will not pay to see a Trek film with his name on it. Parmount is rewarding him for this. Braga has a new CBS series, "Threshold," Berman is still allowed to produce a Trek movie and Coto got the boot. This is crap.

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In fact, Morpheus also used the adjective "appalling" to describe it. 

 

That's what Blalock said in her superb interview not too long ago with the Toronto Star or Sun.

 

It might seem incomplete, but this finalé has the potential to turn ever dwindling numbers of trek fans off of Trek for good.

 

I do understand the worry, but from what I've seen, even the most hardcore ENT fans are starting to see the light. On ST.com there are only a very small group remaining and they tend to be debunked by the Sinister Six (a group of Trek fans who specialise in breaking down the fanatical elements of the Brazael campaign). I see more ENT fans, including some people on SE and TU now starting to question whether it's worth keeping those campaigns going. What I find encouraging is that many of them are now starting to believe what we have been saying for a while that the end of ENT doesn't mean that Trek will never return.

 

I just can't get emotionally invested in Trek anymore. I'm not even angry at this point. I'm just numb. What is the point if the disaster twins can step in once and ruin everything?

 

I understand your frustration. Those of us on Kill Enterprise started that way too. Some people think we are just trolls and flamers. That is incorrect. That site was created by fans who eventually ran out of patience with the Blunder Twins and took a stand. This argument of "Any Trek is better than no Trek" crops up from time to time, but it's nonsense. If Paramount gave us GOOD Trek, we would be excited and interested in it. Berman is the source of the problems. I believe his contract expires in 2006. No Trek project should be even considered before they can get rid of him. I've heard about this new movie. It will be a disaster. The Blunder Twins MUST go.

Edited by The King

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How altruistic of you. :angry: The "sinister six" are a group of immature children who are determined to prove that Tim Brazael is the anti-Christ. They "infiltrate the TU boards" posing as supporters, folks. Can you believe? What a joke that people expend that much negative energy.

 

Yes, the end of ENT does mean the end of Trek. ENT, this season, was wonderful. It's Rick and Brannon who screwed it up at the end.

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Bakulababe, this is particularly troublesome because

Click For Spoiler
Trip dies protecting Archer.  Aliens of the week get on board the NX-01--which is due to be decommissioned in a few weeks--the episode skips the actual founding of the federation because it's focused on Will Riker's conflict on whether or not to tell Picard the truth about the mutiny on the Pegasus in which he backed his former captain all those years before--and they demand that Shran and his new young daughter (the episode is set four years in the future from current ENT time) be handed over.  Archer refuses to hand them over so the aliens order that Archer be killed.  They make a move to do it and Trip stops them by causing an explosion in engineering.  He is caught in the blast and taken to sickbay.  That's where he dies.  Morpheus said that it is made clear in a later scene that he died, but we don't see him die.  We don't get a Trip/T'Pol good-bye scene (in the script, Trip and T'Pol broke up during the four year interim, no explanation given) or a Malcolm/Trip goodbye scene and Morpheus keeps saying that Archer's dialogue is "pathetic" for such an event as tragic as his friend dying to save Archer's life.  Trip's death gets very short shrift.  Sim got a funeral.  Sim got the whole crew there.  Trip does not because of time constraints.  The episode is written as an episode of the next generation, with the focus on Will and Deanna.  It takes place during the episode "Pegasus," so Frakes and Sirtis are playing themselves twelve years younger.  That's the ep where we find out that Will stood by his captain on the pegasus when the crew mutinied, but realizes he was wrong.  This finale sort of rewrites that.  Apparently Will had time to spend on the holodeck doing research.  For some reason, this bit of history helps Will make the decision to tell Picard the truth about what happened on the Pegasus. ......so Trip's death is written poorly; Archer is made to look like an insensitive doofus; the founding of the federation is not portrayed; the minor ENT characters get bascially nothing and there is no sense of closure

 

311302[/snapback]

 

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

 

I'm tempted to tape it and watch it later - much later - after I've had a good, stiff drink or 2 - or 3..... :angry:

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I'm not sure if the holodeck's the best way to go at it. Since the news broke that Frakes and Sirtis would be in the finale over at Trekweb, where I've been for years, people were saying "It's the holodeck, it's the holodeck!"

 

People have been expecting it since the news broke, but I'm still ready to check it out. I'm not passionate for or against Enterprise, so I won't mind if it stunks. It's been good this past season, without a doubt, so I'll miss Manny's contribution. It'd be a shame to see him leave the Trek Universe...

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It takes place during the episode "Pegasus," so Frakes and Sirtis are playing themselves twelve years younger. 

 

311302[/snapback]

 

 

I hope both Frakes and Sirtis got in a lot of treadmill time before filming that...lol

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roflmao

 

kor, you are evil, but it is sooo true. though i'm not one to speak

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I'm inclined to believe MR. I think B&B are forgetting about the fans who have stuck with Enterprise, and are doing something vindictive. Perhaps they are jealous of Manny Coto for the popularity of the episodes he has been responsible for.

 

I am not without hope because I still think anything they do can eventually be undone.

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How altruistic of you.

 

Thankyou :angry:

 

The "sinister six" are a group of immature children who are determined to prove that Tim Brazael is the anti-Christ.

 

No one has ever claimed he was the "Anti-Christ" but he certainly is leading his Savie flock to oblivion. The Sinister Six are parodying the Brazaelian supporters. The SE/TU supporters have built this personality cult around Tim Brazael. Their campaign has really nothing to do with ENT at all anymore. It was at first, but once they spun off into this "we can fund ENT" tangent, they sealed their own fate. If anyone acts like immature children, it's the Savies I often see accusing anyone who doesn't support Brazael's follys as not being "true fans". Though like I said, the more reasonable Savies are starting to understand what our side has been telling them for months.

 

They "infiltrate the TU boards" posing as supporters, folks. Can you believe? What a joke that people expend that much negative energy.

 

Yes, they do infiltrate those boards. It's really the best way to ridicule the Brazaelians. They don't allow any dissenting opinions to be posted on their two sites, so this is the most effective recourse. I certainly can believe it because I support it. I think it's hilarious. I don't think it's negative energy since laughter really is good for you. The Brazaelians seem to regard themselves as the annointed ones who will save Star Trek. That kind of pretention just begs to be challenged. The amazing thing is that when they are challenged, they really don't understand how anyone can disagree with them. Now THAT'S funny. The infiltration will continue.

 

Yes, the end of ENT does mean the end of Trek. ENT, this season, was wonderful. It's Rick and Brannon who screwed it up at the end.

 

The end of ENT means the end of Trek for now. This is something that's needed. People are bored with poor Trek. I've started watching the new season. Thus far, I am unimpressed. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga certainly have screwed up the franchise, but it can be repaired, unless you believe that it can NEVER get any better than failed movies, weak characters and poorly rated and written shows? If that's true, and medicore Trek is all we are going to get, then I'd rather let it end here.

 

I am not without hope because I still think anything they do can eventually be undone

 

I agree.

Edited by The King

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From what I understand of the final they should have just have it air in June... it would give enough time to make it much better... but still I have hope for season 5.

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It's not over until my fat aunt sings!!!

311374[/snapback]

Give it up, it's over....and I say good riddence.

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It's not over until my fat aunt sings!!!

 

I think I can hear her. :angry:

 

It's really now not a question of saving ENT, because it's already been lost. It's been cancelled. All that remains now is for Brazael to admit that his campaigns have failed and are over.

Edited by The King

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I have to hand it to those fans who are willing to pay to see more of Enterprise, but I'm not one of them. I'm just hoping the finale's good and waiting to see what this feature is all about. That sounds interesting enough for me to let it go, especially since I didn't find Enterprise any better than Voyager until this past season, when it almost hit DS9 quality. Yeah, I'd like Manny to be involved somehow in Trek's future, but I don't mind letting it go for a few years. Let's think about where this really needs to go over the next few years, just like they did with the original series. People survived that decade on reruns, so can we... :angry:

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How altruistic of you.  :angry:  The "sinister six" are a group of immature children who are determined to prove that Tim Brazael is the anti-Christ.  They "infiltrate the TU boards" posing as supporters, folks.  Can you believe?  What a joke that people expend that much negative energy. 

 

Yes, the end of ENT does mean the end of Trek.  ENT, this season, was wonderful.  It's Rick and Brannon who screwed it up at the end.

311311[/snapback]

 

Whatever the Sinister Six are - Star Trek fans isn't one of them. Any true Trek fan would display a far greater tolerance and positivity whatever their views on the current show. They are basically trouble makers that have monopolised the board at Startrek.com which is sad since it is ostensbily the official board for the franchise. All they seem capable of is rudeness and reduce every thread to pointless banter between themselves.

 

At least the King indulges in intelligent comment and, whilst not liking Enteprise, seems to uphold the tradition and vision as a whole. I happen to agree with Majel Barret that 'her' Star Trek will die with Enterprise. Whatever reincarnation we may get in the future will not uphold the dream and vision of her husband - as society deteriorates I am afraid there will be no room for a television programme that promotes hope and optimism for the human condition.

 

Whatever your opinion of Tim and the people at Saveenterprise, they display all that is best about the philosophy of Trek and I for one would rather go down with that ship - if indeed it does go down. And if Trek has taught me anything it is that there is always hope.

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In fact, Morpheus also used the adjective "appalling" to describe it. 

 

That's what Blalock said in her superb interview not too long ago with the Toronto Star or Sun.

 

It might seem incomplete, but this finalé has the potential to turn ever dwindling numbers of trek fans off of Trek for good.

 

I do understand the worry, but from what I've seen, even the most hardcore ENT fans are starting to see the light. On ST.com there are only a very small group remaining and they tend to be debunked by the Sinister Six (a group of Trek fans who specialise in breaking down the fanatical elements of the Brazael campaign). I see more ENT fans, including some people on SE and TU now starting to question whether it's worth keeping those campaigns going. What I find encouraging is that many of them are now starting to believe what we have been saying for a while that the end of ENT doesn't mean that Trek will never return.

 

I just can't get emotionally invested in Trek anymore. I'm not even angry at this point. I'm just numb. What is the point if the disaster twins can step in once and ruin everything?

 

I understand your frustration. Those of us on Kill Enterprise started that way too. Some people think we are just trolls and flamers. That is incorrect. That site was created by fans who eventually ran out of patience with the Blunder Twins and took a stand. This argument of "Any Trek is better than no Trek" crops up from time to time, but it's nonsense. If Paramount gave us GOOD Trek, we would be excited and interested in it. Berman is the source of the problems. I believe his contract expires in 2006. No Trek project should be even considered before they can get rid of him. I've heard about this new movie. It will be a disaster. The Blunder Twins MUST go.

311310[/snapback]

 

Ok, my question to you then "The King" is this:

 

Is it really Enterprise that has to go or those two? I thought ENT was very well done once Manny came in and started writing for it.

 

It seems to me that you're placing the wrong emphasis on things, i.e. you're trying to fix the symptom of the problem and not the root cause. Being glad, or trying as hard as you can to kill a show that can be redeemed with good writing, seems a bit dumb to me when I think most agree that it's these two who are the cause of a lot of problems.

 

It's like cutting out part of yuor stomach because you ate something that gave you gas. lol.

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Whatever the Sinister Six are - Star Trek fans isn't one of them.

 

No. They are. They have the right as any Star Trek fan has to offer opinions on the state of the franchise and to criticise those elements of the franchise they do not like. It's certainly true that they do it in their own unique manner but that's their choice. "Rudeness" is a relative term in this whole debate. Indeed the Sinister Six spend far less of their time criticising the show itself and instead rightly criticise Brazael's campaign. Neither ENT or the Brazaelians are above criticism. If the Brazaelians are considered "True Fans", then the Sinister Six are too. It's entirely possible to not like ENT and still be a Star Trek fan. As far as Brazael, his campaign and his supporters are concerned, they have NOTHING to do with Star Trek and are fair game for any challenge and/or criticism.

 

At least the King indulges in intelligent comment and, whilst not liking Enteprise, seems to uphold the tradition and vision as a whole.

 

Thankyou. It's true I assure you, I do believe in Star Trek. I just believe that ENT was a weak version of Trek and I agree with it's cancellation. The fact I didn't like that incarnation of Star Trek certainly doesn't mean I won't like the next one. It still remains to be seen. But whenever I see something Trek-related that I don't like, I won't hesitate for a second to criticise it.

 

I happen to agree with Majel Barret that 'her' Star Trek will die with Enterprise.

 

Honestly, I think her Star Trek died when VOY began. I feel that Star Trek at it's greatest in the last twenty years was TNG and the masterpeice that was DS9.

 

Whatever reincarnation we may get in the future will not uphold the dream and vision of her husband - as society deteriorates I am afraid there will be no room for a television programme that promotes hope and optimism for the human condition.

 

I disagree. I think people still want that. I'm not an adherrant to this idea that society is breaking down and all they want to see on TV is sex and violence. A dignified show that is well written with strong characters and compelling storylines will always be in demand.

 

Whatever your opinion of Tim and the people at Saveenterprise, they display all that is best about the philosophy of Trek

 

They did at first. Writing letters to save the show was fine. But I believe when they got this crazed idea of funding the show themselves it all ended for them. They set themselves up as being the representatives of all Trek fans (they called themselves "Trek United" when in reality the ENT fanbase is relatively small). Brazael must accept reality now, that his campaign is over and ENT is not coming back. My criticism of the Brazaelians centre on their refusal to accept any kind of dissenting opinions on their sites, their constant denial of basic facts and truth connected to the show, their constant spinning of any information which hurts their cause and most importantly their belief that anyone who doesn't support their campaign is not "a real Star Trek fan", which honestly is absurd.

 

Ok, my question to you then "The King" is this:

 

Is it really Enterprise that has to go or those two? I thought ENT was very well done once Manny came in and started writing for it.

 

All three. ENT was a very good concept but it was poorly executed. Weak characters and bad storylines crippled the show. If ENT (hypothetically) returned, they would have to totally relaunch the show. New characters would be an essential requirement. Better writers would be needed. The only problem with that is that the show would carry the baggage of it's past failure. Whether or not the show improved in it's new season (and I'll decide for myself as the weeks go by)

doesn't really matter because the ratings have declined so greatly. This new "improved" final season has seen the lowest ratings for ENT in it's four years. ENT consistantly finishes last in it's rating slot week after week. Jolene Blalock was right when she said they had driven away millions of viewers.

 

Berman must go. He's had enough time. VOY was a flop. INS performed poorly at the box office, NEM was a total disaster. ENT bombed. I have no confidence in this "new movie" he's pushing for. New leadership is required. He's a decent producer and number cruncher, but in terms of a creative leader? No. Braga is basically a "yes" man for Berman, so he must go too, and actually, he already has.

 

It seems to me that you're placing the wrong emphasis on things, i.e. you're trying to fix the symptom of the problem and not the root cause.

 

The root cause needs to be dealt with for sure. But the symptoms (ENT) has now passed the point of no return. Rather than re-hashing that show, it's probably a better idea to cut the loss, wait a few years, let Berman's contract expire and come back to Trek with a fresh approach and better writers.

 

Being glad, or trying as hard as you can to kill a show that can be redeemed with good writing, seems a bit dumb to me when I think most agree that it's these two who are the cause of a lot of problems.

 

Personally, I think ENT is beyond redemption. "IF" it was to be brought back, it would require massive changes. I just don't think it's worth it.

 

Star Trek though, is not beyond redemption.

 

It's like cutting out part of yuor stomach because you ate something that gave you gas. lol. 

 

I see it more as no longer eating the thing that is affecting your stomach before you cause permanent harm to yourself.

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This thread is about the upcoming final episode of ENT.

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts and opinions about the finale?

 

As for me, I'll watch it, but if the script rumors are true, I won't enjoy it. It sounds like an idiotic concept and doesn't give the ENT cast and crew the send-off they deserve.

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I've been trying to avoid reading or seeing anything about the finale..But I have broke down and read some. And of course I am appalled..I feel that, like DS9, this is going to be one of those finales that I watch once and never again..

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I found this at TrekWeb.com:

 

UPN has issued details on the plot of the last STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE episode.

 

The episode, entitled "These Are The Voyages...," will air May 13 at 9pm, directly after the penultimate episode, "Terra Prime."

 

In a press release today, UPN confirmed the salient points of the plot:

 

Click For Spoiler

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Producers defend final episode of ENT

 

12:00 AM, 26-APRIL-05

Producers Defend Enterprise End

 

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If they had to introduce characters from the other series, they should have had Kirk reviewing the events from Enterprise aboard the Enterprise-A or something. That would have brought Star Trek full circle.

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I agree, it would have had a nice circularity, and it would have mirrored the voy episode where janeway said she would have loveded to have lived ion kirks time where there were less rules. Kirk could say the same thing about Archers time, when there were no rules.

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I just saw some pics of the last episode. Riker and Troi don't merely watch the events proceed, they are

Click For Spoiler
actually involved in the events via the holodeck. Riker is shown (bloated as ever) in an Enterprise uniform firing a phase rifle.

(Spoiler added)

Edited by Alterego

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I just saw some pics of the last episode. Riker and Troi don't merely watch the events proceed, they are
Click For Spoiler

(Spoiler added)

321475[/snapback]

 

I think I saw that one too

Click For Spoiler

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I just saw some pics of the last episode. Riker and Troi don't merely watch the events proceed, they are
Click For Spoiler

(Spoiler added)

321475[/snapback]

Click For Spoiler

 

I would like to say that the Kirk idea would be impossible as holodecks did not exist in Kirk's time.

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I never said that Kirk had to be in a holodeck. He would merely be watching the events unfold on a viewer of some sort.

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