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Theunicornhunter

Do you think this is a frivolous lawsuit?

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I couldn't believe this story: CNN

 

Basically, an honors student is complaining because they give honors students homework during the summer and it interfered with his summer job. I guess he thinks someday he can just tell his boss he can't work overtime because he has "plans". :spock:

 

Being an "honor" student is well - an honor - for it to mean more than a non-honors course it has to involve more work. It's like he wants the fancy designation without the effort.

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The whole situation sounds silly to me. If the young man doesn't want to do the work let him make space for a student that will do the homework and wants to be there. It's just another crybaby brat that's not getting his way. Shame on the father for allowing and promoting the kid's behavior.

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silly in the extreme - a degree, or any honorific for that matter, is indicative of hard work - being an honors student, a PhD candidate, a medical student - sleepless nights come with the territory, and so do the rewards - seems anything's up for a suit these days, or is it just whining (?) that rates litigation... :spock:

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He should be thankful that he's getting the opportunity to receive a through education and stop complaining.

 

A lot of people in the world would love to get that kind of education but can't for whatever reason.

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He should be thankful that he's getting the opportunity to receive a through education and stop complaining.

 

A lot of people in the world would love to get that kind of education but can't for whatever reason.

 

I have to agree with you on that. I would of given anything to have been able to go to school. I was home schooled up to the eighth grade and later in my life after marrying I got to go to trade school and studied a few years at college, but if I had the advantages this young man had, I wouldn't be whining about doing homework during summer break.

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The kid should stop his whining. The judge should drop the lawsuit. I agree with The King and BlueCrystal on this one. I would have love to have been in his place instead being limited on what classes I could take because I have dyslexia.

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I've never heard of homework being given out to high school students to be done over the summer before. Is this common in the States?

 

I don't think the suit is frivolous necessarily. Where do you draw the line when it comes to high school homework? Are the teachers available over the summer if the student has questions or needs help (probably not)? Should homework only be given out when students have access to the teachers in case they do have problems? In this particular case, it was one class that gave out enough homework to put the skids on his summer job. What if all of his classes had given out that much homework? Would that have been considered excessive?

 

As well, he's not complaining that having homework was interfering with his social life. It interfered with his summer job and for some students a summer job can mean the difference between affording post-secondary education or not. Scholarships don't necessarily cover everything, even for honours students. Can you imagine what it would be like for a kid to work his/her butt off to graduate from an honours program and then not be able to continue their education because they can't afford it? Since the man and his son are acting as their own legal counsel, it's possible they don't have money to throw around.

 

I don't know the "ins and outs" of how your system works in the States but one thing I have seen played out many times is how important it is to have extra-curricular activities listed when you're applying to different colleges and universities. Marks aren't enough, I keep hearing. Working as a camp counselor sounds like the type of job a university would want to see on an application. Giving up that job could make a difference on what university he's accepted to later.

 

Like I said, where do you draw the line?

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I think the lawsuit is a disgrace to be honest, I'm sure it will be dismissed and I'd say the only reason they're acting as their own legal counsel is because no lawyer would get involved.

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Takara, "honors" classes aren't regular classes. You know when you sign up for them that extra work is involved - and they were advised that summer homework was involved. They are also voluntary - you can graduate without taking them. So basically the kid is voluntarily taking a class that requires extra work specifically so they'll mean something on a transcript and then saying he shouldn't have to do the extra work.

 

As for summer job - his argument was that the homework gave him stress.

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This comes down to quality over quantity. Anybody can do school work all year round. Even a child of normal intelligence who recieves regular work could work all year round if made to. Honors students should be able to do more challenging work. If they can do harder work that should be enough. School during the summer is just more, and not harder. That just proves that they spend more time on school than the average person, not that they are academically smarter than the average person. So I agree with this kid. If he can take on harder work, that should be enough to say "Hey, I'm gifted in my abilities at school so I deserve credit in the form of recognition".

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I absolutely disagree with the student and his father, because they are trying to get the requirement taken out for everyone in the state because the selfish boy does not want to do the work himself.

 

Because the specialized honors work is given in the summer, deeper and more time consuming problems can be assigned than might be assigned during a school year when there are more committments both academically and socially.

 

I noticed the boy was complaining about math. Math requires effort to learn. Period. Most definitely he needs to loose this one.

 

Let the lazy boy and his indulging father find their way out of the honors program, and let those willing to take on special challenges continue with a program capable of developing the kind of intellectual depth and and committment to learning that are harder and harder to find among future college students in the United States.

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Captain Bolivar - how do you define harder - if not for the effort required? I don't think this kid was being given busy work - he was supposed to learn calculus. But if it was busywork then he could blow it off pretty quick. I think the fact that is wasn't busy work was the problem.

 

If all honors programs mean is "I have a higher IQ so I can blow off time while 'normal' kids have to study" then we should get rid of honors programs. A person doesn't deserve recognition just for being born with an above average IQ. An average kid who works his butt off deserves much more recognition (and IMO would eventually make a much better employee).

 

MJ,

Good comment

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I read through all the replies here first, and honestly saw both sides. I agree with several of Takara's statements.

After reading the article, I fell less sympathy for the boy. I, personally, despise the idea of summer homework. Summer is a time for kids to have a break from academics if they so desire. For older kids, it's also a chance to make some cash that can be used to pay for further schooling. As Takara said, scholarships don't always pay for everything, and the scholarships for non-Honors students can be even less.

However, I'm going to assume he knew there was going to be summer homework when he entered the program, and that he entered voluntarily. If that's the case, no matter how I feel about summer hw, I can't fully support him.

I would feel for him more if it were proven to be a huge workload (ie- several hours a day), which would be difficult to take on while holding a camp job (very full schedule). The way it's mentioned in the article, though, doesn't make it seem all that intensive.

 

Hmm...

 

For me it's all about the workload. If it were a gigantic workload (and even if I knew that going in), I'd go against the system. Just because a kid is smart and deserves to be in an Honors program, that doesn't mean they should have their social life taken away. That can do more harm than the good resulting from graduating with Honors.

If the load is challenging, yet less intensive... too bad for me. I'd need to vacate my spot and give it to someone willing to put in the effort.

 

I'm in the Honors program at my university (despite my grammar and punctuation on this site. Sorry, I'm in a hurry. :spock: Also, I'm definitely not bragging; I'm just making a comparison) and haven't had any summer assignments. I've heard from a few friends that they had to read a book over the summer in high school, but that was about all. Heck, I've taken an entire Calculus course over the summer and still had time to do many other things. Learning some pre-calc (by an Honors student) shouldn't be very time consuming. At least I don't think it would.

 

Either way, this lawsuit seems frivolous. This is something that should've stayed in the hands of the school board.

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This kid needs to be taught the merrits of the old saying, "If ya can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Honors classes involve a much tougher cirriculum than normal High School classes, and there is a reason for it too. Honors courses are for college credit, as well as HS credit. you wanna be an honors student, you better come ready to work, and work hard. if you don't want to put forth the effort, then don't take the classes.

 

 

And by the way, the High School I am going to be teaching at does assign homework. Required summer reading is part of the cirriculum, even for non-honors student. Everyone from the Freshmen to the Seniors are expected to do it. I feel no sympathy for him. if I were the judge, I'd tell him exactly what I just posted, then dismiss the lawsuit.

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As an individual that graduated with an honors diploma from high school, I can see both sides of the coin. I had to hold down a full time job while I was in high school to help my family make ends meet. I usually worked alot more in the summer since I was available for longer periods of time. I did have homework during the summer and it usually took up an very large part of my summer time. And to be very honest all that it resulted in was making me extremely stressed and making me feel worse about myself as I did not have anyone or any resources to go to with questions, so if I ran into a problem that I could not figure out or made a mistake then I had to continue the rest of the work based on faulty work, thus making everything that I had completed incorrect as a result of not having someone to contact for questions. It also removed any chance that I had for a social life, which is something that still causes me problems to this day, as I never completely developed socially and tend to be a recluse as a result. I strongly disagree with the assigning of homework during summer months or any other period of time that there will not be someone that they can reach to ask questions, I also feel that yes an honors diploma is a great thing, but if it has to be gained at the expense of social development than it is not worth it for anyone as the lack of social development will ultimately be more damaging than not having the honors diploma. I can understand summer reading and such but not intensive or complicated assignments without having assistance available. My belief is that if the teachers are going to expect the student to do work during the summer, then the teacher needs to make themselves available to answer any questions that they may have. Some may disagree, but yes the student chooses to take the class and the work load, but the teacher also chooses to teach it and make the assignments so therefore should be prepared to take the reasponsibility of actually being there to teach the student.

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My belief is that if the teachers are going to expect the student to do work during the summer, then the teacher needs to make themselves available to answer any questions that they may have.  Some may disagree, but yes the student chooses to take the class and the work load, but the teacher also chooses to teach it and make the assignments so therefore should be prepared to take the reasponsibility of actually being there to teach the student.

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I agree that if there is depth to the work being asked of the students, that there should be teachers who are available to be consulted. If not the program is going to be ineffective.

 

I think the program being discussed here is a state honors program, not just a single school. I agree that independent study should not mean isolated study, but I suspect that this young man did not have access to resources because he was working in a summer camp away from whatever sources were set up.

 

I think many people here at stf.net were either high school or college honors students. I took my school system's version of honors courses from the seventh grade on, though not every course. I took honors mathematics courses in college.

 

When I think of the 60 Minutes piece on the India Institute of Technology, and how families across India (many dirt poor ) have their children studying night after night so that years later they have a chance to get into that insititution, and how those denied entrance end up with the second and third choice--places like America's MIT and Cal Tech....And then I think of this guy trying to stop everyone from working hard because he does not want to be bothered. And its clear to see where the next generation of great scientists and engineers are going to come from.

One of our American computer companies built one of its most modern R&D facilities in India. This last year, the lowest perecentage ever of Americans were awarded Ph.D's in mathematics, with the majority going to foreign born graduate students.

 

American youth today are socialized beyond any balance. They mostly no longer know what hard work is. And with parents like the father of this young man, the next generation will look up and wonder why America lost its leadership in development of new technolgies and in the sciences.

The contrast between this father, and the parents of the childern in India, is most telling.

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I remember when I was in high school the most annoying saying my mother had was study hard and socialize later. It work. School must come first. To bad he had do due math homework over the summer. What will he do when he is in college when he has to study and work at the same time? These are Honor Classes! If he is not up to them than he should not take the classes.

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I have homework over the summer. That's how it works. He signed up for the courses knowing about the work load. His responsibility.

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