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MichaelJCO

So Starfleet wasnt military at first

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Interesting points.

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As time goes on, Earth, and later the Federation, realises that while Earth is paradise, very few other places even come close. The Galaxy is a rough place. So Starfleet evolves. Enterprise carries relatively few weapons for a ship her size. Two guns, two missile/torpedo launchers, on a ship the size of an Iowa Class Battleship. By the time of Kirk's Enterprise, The need for armed ships was more obvious. Kirk's vessel was more combat ready. We didn't see a while lot in the Original Series, but in the movies, the fact that the Enterprise and Enterprise A both have at least a half-dozen twin mounts for phasers, but still only two torpedo tubes. If you look at Excelsior, she is even more heavily armed, with 9 or 10 twin mounts on the saucer alone! Then we get to the Next Generation. The Galaxy class has ten of the most powerful phasers ever fitted to a starship, and three total torpedo tubes <One is only usable when the saucer seperates>. Voyager, a ship 1/4 the size of the Galaxy class, has a dozen of the same phaser arrays, and four torpedo tubes ready to go. Defiant has at least four phaser cannons, possibly a dorsal phaser array, and aft torpedo capabilities on a ship significantly smaller than the NX-01. And then there's the Enterprise E. 6-7 Torpedo tubes, and 12-15 phaser arrays. Starfleet sure got the hint that not everyone is out there to play nice. It took them a while, but they did evolve from being explorers with weapons for defense to being a capable military force. I also think, in the aftermath of the Dominion War, Starfleet would establish a permanent Strategic and Tactical Command, with purpose-built warships maintained at the ready. You just never know when you've only explored 20% of your home galaxy...

This could also be explained by technological development and miniaturization, not an overall change in philosophy.

 

As Starfleet's and the UFP's technology improved they were able to build weapons and armaments that were smaller *and* more powerful, allowing them to place more firepower on smaller surface areas.

 

Would Starfleet have sent a Soverign class cruiser after the Xindi or the Suliban? Sure, if they had that option.

 

Would the 13 colonies have sent a modern aircraft carrier against the Brittish Navy in our War of Independence and prevented reinforcements from ariving? Sure, if we had the option.

 

Would Attila the Hun have attacked the Roman cities and provinces with M-1 Abrams tanks instead of cavalry on horseback? Sure, if he had the option.

 

The real test of whether a philosophical shift had occurred is whether Starfleet had military assets it could have used but didn't.

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Now THERE are some altered-history 'events'!Yow!!!

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Gotcha totally. I was merely offhandedly commenting on the wild mental image I had of an aircraft carrier a few centuries back, or a couple of tanks fighting for the Hun...Closest to reality....''Final Countdown''....

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I'm going to defend Krissy here, because I see where she's going with this.

 

Enterprise NX-01 had what? 3 phasers and four torpedo tubes? Voyager, a ship 200 years more advanced, had at least a dozen phaser arrays and 4 torpedo tubes. Yes, the weapons are more advanced. Any ship from the NX era would be slaughtered by a ship from Voyager's era, just because of the weaponry advances. But, there is some hint of a paradigm shift.

 

Enterprise carried the most advanced weapons available at the time, but was relatively lightly armed. Now, maybe this is because of the technology, and those weapons were BIG. However, Voyager's phasers are 200 years more advanced. If there was not a shift in philosophies, why then would Voyager, a ship not much larger than Enterprise, need four times as many <newer, more powerful> phaser arrays? And why is a ship half the size of a Galaxy class so well armed that it could take the larger ship on with very equal footing? This, of course, is ignoring the out of universe reason, Voyager was trapped in the Delta Quadrant and needed some firepower. In universe, though, why would a ship that size need that many guns? I would also point out, in the REAL world Navies, as technologies advanced, ships carried fewer, but more potent, weapons. Admiral Nelson's flagship at Trafalgar had 70 or more guns at her disposal. Modern warships rarely have more than two main guns, plus one or two missile launchers. The rounds they fire, however, are far more potent than those of HMS Victory. Assuming the same is true from the 22nd to the 24th century, why do "modern" Federation ships have so many damned weapons?

 

My thought: Starfleet learned a few hard lessons: from the Xindi, the Romulans, and the Klingons: The Galaxy ain't a nice place. Somewhere along the line, someone said "Hey, we need to be able to fight, too, and having two guns and a couple torpedo tubes isn't gonna cut it when the excriment hits the ventilation system" Starfleet KNEW they needed to beef up the guns of their fleet. They adopted a stronger, more military like system with their ships. I would say if the mind-change had not been made, then Voyager would have still had more advanced weaponry, but not nearly so much of it. Perhaps 4 phasers and 2 torpedo tubes, not 12 or more phasers and 4 torpedo tubes. Then, too, The Federation would have gone the way of the dodo bird somewhere between the last episode of Enterprise and "The Cage".

Edited by Gary Phaserman

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Zephrem Cochrane, if he had any influence whatsoever upon the shaping of what became starfleet, knew, and via some very personal, firsthand experience, that the universe could be a dangerous place. Right now, obviously noone at NASA, or the ESA, would ponder the idea of arming a spacecraft!...but, proof came, to them, anyway, that indeed et's existed-and that there were out there among the stars, somehow reached, beings with violent intent, you can bet the r and d gang would be finding ways in which to arm a space-starcraft. That said, I stand on the priciple that Starfleet was, in both Archer's time, and Kirk's an exporation-first entity, as Gene himself envisioned. But, as has been said here, both ships he saw created and approved were prepared to defend themselves, and or those who needed defending. To Boldly Go...with a well-charged phaser bank.

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Zephrem Cochrane, if he had any influence whatsoever upon the shaping of what became starfleet, knew, and via some very personal, firsthand experience, that the universe could be a dangerous place.

 

Zephram had firsthand experience with the Enterprise-E crew from the future and a handful of Vulcans from his present, but that was it. He never encountered a single Borg himself. All his information he got from the Borg was from travelers from the future while he was hung over - possibly still drunk - and from Lily who had been scared out of her wits.

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Be that as it may, in the Enterprise episode 'Regeneration'' Archer, talking to T'Pol after the battle with (the Borg, unknowingly) has been researching Cochrane on his office terminal, and tells her of a speech he made-you can even see some image of the man, is presented to be-on the screen at a commencement, in which Jon references him talking about machines, or cyborgs, etc. ''from the future''...and a skeptical T'Pol somewhat disagrees, and refernces his drinking, yes...but I don't picture him then, for all his colorful past, going to make a speech of that kind, to those impressionable kids, and stating something that would be 'nonsense'. And you can bet your antimatter that he didn't likely do it drunk. He caught a glimpse of some remarkable things. Riker and Geordi may have had to work at it, but in the end they convinced him that he HAD to take that trip...that he was destined to. I daresay they helped give him more reason to live, than to''get rich, and buy an island with lots of naked women'' or somesuch. He saw-all of it. Good, and bad. And you bet he remembered-all of it. And he left a legacy, that included going forth, to discover, if in strength. And by the way...Lilly Sloan was certainly no liar. She was like himself a trained scientist...but once she was convinced by Picard, that was it, and Zeph trusted HER. Fini.

Edited by Voyager recruit

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