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Odie

Promoted in the Navy!

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Someone who straight out of college with the rank of an Ensign still out ranks me. It is not the age of the person that matters when it comes to rank. The only thing that matters is the rank itself.

 

As far as your question "if you were an enlisted E-9 master chief, would a second lieutenant straight out of univeristy ROTC outrank you? and if that were the case, in times of battle, would the 25 year career soldier have to take orders from a 21 year old second lieutenant green at the gills?" The answer is yes. The Master Chief would still have to obey the order. The reason the Master Chief to be there is to train and advise the young officer. It would be wise for the young officer to take the advise from the the Master Chief. In the Navy there are no Second Lieutenants. They are called Ensign, but a lot of them are still as green as a Second Lieutenant.

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Someone who straight out of college with the rank of an Ensign still out ranks me.  It is not the age of the person that matters when it comes to rank.  The only thing that matters is the rank itself.   

 

As far as your question "if you were an enlisted E-9 master chief, would a second lieutenant straight out of univeristy ROTC outrank you? and if that were the case, in times of battle, would the 25 year career soldier have to take orders from a 21 year old second lieutenant green at the gills?"  The answer is yes.  The Master Chief would still have to obey the order.  The reason the Master Chief to be there is to train and advise the young officer.  It would be wise for the young officer to take the advise from the the Master Chief.  In the Navy there are no Second Lieutenants.  They are called Ensign, but a lot of them are still as green as a Second Lieutenant.

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Yeah, if an O-1 were in combat and had an E-9 with him he might outrank him but he (or she) would be very foolish to not heed his (or her) commands. In my few years in the Army all of the Jr Officers (O-1 and O-2) basically worshiped the Sr NCO's (E-8 and E-9).

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Best advice I give to Ensigns, or even LT JGs like myself, is if you have a question, don't ask a senior officer. Ask the Cheif. the Cheifs have been around a while and know what they are talking about.

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To answer your question, yes, a brand new Ensign would outrank a Master Chief.

 

Rank and influence, however, are separate concepts.

 

You also have to remember that the roles are different. The officer's role is to make important decisions. The NCO's role is to implement those decisions.

 

Don't go by what you saw on DS9. By all rights Nog sould have been OPS Chief once he made Ensign.

 

A Master Chief makes substantially more than an Ensign.

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On the first day of US Army Combat Engineer School (the school new 2LT Combat Engineers go to immediately after commissioning) is an exercise where the trainer takes a class of new Lieutenants and says "Tell me how to put a flagpole here." These officers, who all have engineering degrees, immediately set out to design flagpoles, determine how deep the pole should go into the ground, weight of materials, etc., etc.

 

One person in the class turns to an NCO and says "Sergeant, I want a flagpole here, see to it." Then he walks off to his other officer duties.

 

He is the only one to pass that exercise. A good officer knows how to make the best of use of the resources he is given, not do everything himself.

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ic so in fact the newbie ensign does technically outrank the highest NCO at all times.. i noticed on that diagram that warrant officers are somewhere in between all of this how does this come into play?

 

and can a master chief ever go back and get a degree in golf course management and thus get a commisioned to a ensign/second lieutenant? i understand that hed most likely be taking a paycut, but it seems trivial that a college degree is all it takes to get a commision to be an officer i would think that the 15 year serviceman on a nuclear sub would know just enough to breeze through a degree in say mechanical systems from ITT Tech or Devry

 

im not trying to belittle the system of our armed forces, but i think with a lot of experience and work, there has to be some kind of way to compensate our hard working NCO's so that they dont have to take (I'm trying to say a bad word but can't) from a 21 year old grad from ITT Tech.

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Yes an NCO can become an officer through OCS (Officer Candidate School) My CO was a Captain but had risen through the ranks from Private to Sergeant then went to OCS and became a 2nd Lt.

 

Warrant Officers (In the Army) are usually Enlisted people that went to Warrant Officer School to be a Helicopter pilot or for some other specialized MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) that doesn't require a commissioned officer. Warrant officers are above the enlisted ranks but below the commissioned officer ranks.

 

As for a Sr NCO having to answer to a 2nd Lt, there has to be a rank structure and while most of the upper Sr NCO's may find 2nd Lt's and 1st Lt's to be somewhat annoying they completely understand the importance of the chain of command.

 

It just has to be that way.

 

But the 21 year old 2nd Lt knows full well that the Sgt. Major commands the unit's respect and by ignoring him or pulling rank on him he (or she) risks losing the credibility of the entire unit.

 

Here's a chart that includes Warrant Officers:

 

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html

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Here's an explanation of Warrant officers from the site I posted:

 

Warrant officers hold warrants from their service secretary and are specialists and experts in certain military technologies or capabilities. The lowest ranking warrant officers serve under a warrant, but they receive commissions from the president upon promotion to chief warrant officer 2. These commissioned warrant officers are direct representatives of the president of the United States. They derive their authority from the same source as commissioned officers but remain specialists, in contrast to commissioned officers, who are generalists. There are no warrant officers in the Air Force.

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When did they add W-5?

281563[/snapback]

 

I was thinking the same thing, CW4 was the highest they had when I was in back in the late 80's and early 90's.

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3 conditions have to be met in order to receive a commission as an officer:

 

1) The applicant must have graduated with a bachelors degree from an accredited university. As such DeVry and Heald and ITT Tech wouldn't count.

 

2) The applicant must have graduated from an officer training program - ROTC, OCS, or one of the military academies.

 

3) The applicant must be 29 or younger at the time of commissioning (although sometimes this can be waived, especially if the applicant has prior enlisted service).

 

In wars past some NCOs have received field commissions, but this would only happen in an extreme emergency - such as all the officers die and there are no replacements in the pipeline. Audie Murphy was one such person. However, this practice is no longer continued.

 

Maybe Nog could be compared with Audie Murphy, but Wesley Crusher? Forget it.

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Thanks, mj.

 

Today I've gotten my uniforms to the taylor's and they will be done by tomorrow. :lol:

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Thanks, mj.

 

Today I've gotten my uniforms to the taylor's and they will be done by tomorrow.  :lol:

281647[/snapback]

 

I envy you Odie, I wish I was still in the Army. I remember how proud I was when I took all of my uniforms to the PX to get my Specialist rank sewn on.

 

People that have never experienced it don't fully understand it, and even some that have don't agree but the military is a great life.

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Thanks, mj.

 

Today I've gotten my uniforms to the taylor's and they will be done by tomorrow.   :lol:

281647[/snapback]

 

I envy you Odie, I wish I was still in the Army. I remember how proud I was when I took all of my uniforms to the PX to get my Specialist rank sewn on.

 

People that have never experienced it don't fully understand it, and even some that have don't agree but the military is a great life.

281666[/snapback]

 

Thanks, VBG! I agree with you its many don't full understand military life. Right now I can't see myself leaving the Navy. I actually I love my job in the Navy. There is nothing to compare with military life.

 

Monday will be my first day I can wear my new rate on my uniforms. I don't no what is like in the Army, but in the Navy there is a frocking cemerony. Right now I am trying to get my dress uniform ready for that day. I few very small items that I need to get ready.

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Thanks, mj.

 

Today I've gotten my uniforms to the taylor's and they will be done by tomorrow.   :lol:

281647[/snapback]

 

I envy you Odie, I wish I was still in the Army. I remember how proud I was when I took all of my uniforms to the PX to get my Specialist rank sewn on.

 

People that have never experienced it don't fully understand it, and even some that have don't agree but the military is a great life.

281666[/snapback]

 

Thanks, VBG! I agree with you its many don't full understand military life. Right now I can't see myself leaving the Navy. I actually I love my job in the Navy. There is nothing to compare with military life.

 

Monday will be my first day I can wear my new rate on my uniforms. I don't no what is like in the Army, but in the Navy there is a frocking cemerony. Right now I am trying to get my dress uniform ready for that day. I few very small items that I need to get ready.

281672[/snapback]

 

I was promoted 3 times while I was in. The first time from E-1 to E-2 I was still in training and nothing was done, in fact I didn't even know I was promoted until I got my LES and it said I was an E-2.

 

When I was promoted to E-3 (PFC) I was at my permanent duty station of Fort Hood, at that time I was in Alpha Company 57th Signal Battalion 3rd Signal Brigade and was called up in front of the daily formation to be promoted in front of the company.

 

WHen I was promoted to E-4 (3 months later, working at HQ had it's perks lol) I was in HHC (Headquarters, Headquarters Company) of the same Battalion and again was called in front of the company to be promoted. Funny thing about that time is that by then I was working in the Battalion S-1 in charge of redeployments and was also the Battalion Adjutant's driver. About 2 months after my promotion I was doing some work around the office and she came up to me to tell me my rank was on upside down (Specialist rank looks similar to PFC rank except it points down while PFC points up) then she noticed it was Specialist rank and not PFC. The Sr NCO in the office, a Sgt First Class (E-7) got a chewing out over that because she wanted to be the one to pin the rank on me when I got the promotion lol.

 

Oh the memories... lol

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In the Navy enlisted personel only change to get promoted is twice a year. Its a very big deal for us. On Monday everyone who got promoted to E-4, E-5, and E-6 in my command will get frocked at the same time by our Commanding Officer.

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I remember being enlisted, I got promoted twice. I went into the Navy as an E-3, because of JROTC. I made 3rd by completing my school for Fire Control. it took me a while to make Second, though. When I did, it was after I had dropped out of Bud/s and was in GM School (I decided to Cross Rate, I did NOT want to go back to subs, so I chose a surface rating). I got Second after all the usual stuff, while I was still in GM School. Probably the best day of my life though was after the STA 21 stuff, and graduation day at OCS. My dad (Retired Navy, he wore his uniform to the graduation) and my Brother (whom, as you know, is a reservist) both came up to me and saluted me at the same time, so I gave em BOTH coins. I wouldn't be totally honest if I said I didn't wish I was still enlisted. Being an officer has it's perks, But I really would have liked to stay enlisted long enough to make Chief, so my Dad could come pin the Anchors on me. Oh, well. He got to pin my JG bars on, so it's all good.

 

 

By the way, there are LDO programs that NCOs and Cheifs can do to become officers. there were also plans in the works, though I dunnow the status, to allow Master Cheifs with at least 25 years of Service to put in for LDO and be commissioned as a Lieutenant Commander.

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Today I picked up my service dress blues. They look great!

 

By the way, there are LDO programs that NCOs and Cheifs can do to become officers. there were also plans in the works, though I dunnow the status, to allow Master Cheifs with at least 25 years of Service to put in for LDO and be commissioned as a Lieutenant Commander.

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Right now that is my career plans. So soon as I am eligible I am planning to put in my LDO package. Right now I need to hit the books very hard in the next few years.

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I have been promoted to PETTY OFFICER FIRST CLASS:nono:

 

:band:  :wwww:  :rockon:

281150[/snapback]

 

Congratulations Odie fo this :nono: :o

 

and do you get paid more now? :(

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I have been promoted to PETTY OFFICER FIRST CLASS:nono:

 

:band:  :wwww:  :rockon:

281150[/snapback]

 

Congratulations Odie fo this :nono: :o

 

and do you get paid more now? :(

281948[/snapback]

 

I won't get pay for it right away. Maybe next month or until June. I have to find which increment that I am in, but it doesn't matter right now.

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I have been promoted to PETTY OFFICER FIRST CLASS:nono:

 

:band:  :wwww:  :rockon:

281150[/snapback]

 

Congratulations Odie fo this :nono: :o

 

and do you get paid more now? :(

281948[/snapback]

 

I won't get pay for it right away. Maybe next month or until June. I have to find which increment that I am in, but it doesn't matter right now.

281951[/snapback]

 

Wow, it might take till June? I wonder if that's new in the military or just in the Navy. When I was in the pay increase was immediate.

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It's just the Navy. It how they promoted their personnel. Advancement for E-4 to E-6 only happens twice a year. First there is an exam to take, and if the person misses the exam they will not get promoted. In fact they will get into trouble over it. The exam is taken in March and September. The results of the exam is out until May and November. This exam cycle close to 20,000 sailors got promoted at the same time. Because so many get promoted at once, the Navy can't pay everyone at the same time. Based on the results of the exam will determine when the person will get paid. The better the exam score sooner the sailor will get paid.

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The better the exam score sooner the sailor will get paid.

281955[/snapback]

 

That makes no sense. A promotion is a promotion is a promotion. You should start to receive pay at your new rank as soon as the new rank becomes effective regardless of how well you scored on the test.

 

The person who graduates last in his class at West Point is still called "Sir". The person who graduates last in his class in medical school is still called "Doctor".

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