42 Reasons Why Picard is Better Than Kirk

[Wishfire 2]

The opposite of the "42 Reasons Why Kirk is Better Than Picard" thread.

[Wishfire 2]

42. Bald looks better than a toupee.

41. Picard doesn't need to beat up Klingons to get respect.

40. Picard is smart enough to wait until Beverly Crusher gets rid of Wesley.

39. Real men drink tea without caring what anyone else thinks.

38. Picard doesn't need a phaser and a smirk. He'll win anyway.

37. Picard may sing to children in a crisis, but Kirk would put a red shirt on them!

36. Picard can drive a stick shift.

35. Picard can make do with no technology.

34. Kirk posed as a Romulan, got caught, and had trouble getting off a Romulan ship. Picard posed as a Romulan, got caught, but had little trouble getting off of Romulus.

33. Picard actually knows a thing or two about hygene.

32. Kirk only thinks he looks good in a ripped shirt, but Picard knows he does!

31. Picard has a first officer who isn't afraid to tell him to stay on the bridge.

30. Picard has the respect for other people to take them out of the room to bawl them out.

29. Picard knows to listen to his elders, even if the elder is a janitor.

28. Kirk never had a bartender that's been around for over 500 years. Picard did.

27. Picard never blew up his entire ship just to kill a couple Klingons.

26. Picard never fell in love with a machine.

25. If something doesn't speak English -- that's okay, Picard isn't limited to just English.

24. If Picard finds a strange spinning probe, Picard finds out whether or not it's a friend, first. Only an idiot blows up friends!

23. Kirk never met Mirina Sirtis.

22. Picard hasn't fathered any children; Kirk -- probably millions. Guess who doesn't pay child support?

21. Picard's phaser has 16 settings -- not some children's ray gun with only a couple.

20. Picard knows how to deal with everyone.

19. Picard matched wits mutiple times with an entity that makes a Greek god look like a kitten. And won every time.

18. Picard isn't afraid to ask for help.

17. Picard is smart enough to listen to his doctor.

16. One word: brains.

15. If you can lock Picard up, you're lucky.

14. If Picard plays god with lesser cultures, he's responsible about it.

13. Picard's son would never stay away from his father so he could build the greatest invention in the galaxy -- and fail miserably.

12. Picard can fly a small craft through another ship's corridors without crashing through a bulkhead.

11. Picard's engineer could tell what's wrong with the engine just be glancing at it.

10. The Klingon's leader was put there by Picard.

9. Picard's bridge doesn't sprout cables from just a couple enemy torpedoes.

8. Picard isn't afraid to allow fuzzy things on board.

7. Picard's chair is plush.

6. Picard may touch synthahol, but at least he never gets hangovers!

5. Picard can infiltrate modern threats -- easily.

4. When Picard says "Boldly Go," he's not talking about the toilet.

3. Picard met a powerful entity that called himself God, and laughed.

2. Kirk would kill a Klingon. Picard has a Klingon to do his killing for him.

1. Four Words: BALDNESS WILL BLIND ENEMIES!

Edited December 16, 2004 by Takara_Soong

[Cougar 0]

hey good job Wishfire. Good thing you took my suggestion.

[Wishfire 2]

Thanks. Glad you like it.

[Cougar 0]

I would like to see others like this, I could do this but I don't feel like typing this much. LOL!

[Wishfire 2]

Yeah, I didn't realize it was going to take a while. It took even more time just to figure good reversals of the other list.

[El Cid 0]

Yeah, my words! You are O.K., man.... :unsure:

[Wishfire 2]

I just went through this list for a few laughs, and realized I made one big mistake... Reson number 19 - I said Kirk when I meant Picard.

[Takara_Soong 4]

I just went through this list for a few laughs, and realized I made one big mistake... Reson number 19 - I said Kirk when I meant Picard.

289587[/snapback]

 

I went into your post and edited it for you so it now says Picard.

[Spockstellaiter 0]

Go here for a 1800 more reasons why kirk is better than picard http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/4537/krkbest.html

(I tried to paste all the reasons in here but it was so long it wouldn't let me)

Edited December 16, 2004 by Spockstellaiter

[Wishfire 2]

I just went through this list for a few laughs, and realized I made one big mistake... Reson number 19 - I said Kirk when I meant Picard.

289587[/snapback]

 

I went into your post and edited it for you so it now says Picard.

289666[/snapback]

 

Oh, cool. Thanks!

[Wishfire 2]

Go here for a 1800 more reasons why kirk is better than picard http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/4537/krkbest.html

(I tried to paste all the reasons in here but it was so long it wouldn't let me)

289683[/snapback]

 

I think that this belongs witht the 42 reasons why Kirk is better thread in TOS.

 

But I am now going to blow holes in several of those reasons, starting at the top.

 

1851. Mr. Adventure said to Uhura in The Search For Spock, "That's Admiral Kirk, my God!" Nobody has ever expressed such shock and awe at seeing Picard. Garfield Nut

 

And it only took Kirk 20+ years for that!

 

1850. Picard in "Time's Arrow" noted that, after Data went missing on the planet below "Despite the emotional repercussions among my crew, I must move this mission forward, and that we cannot make Mr. Data our priority." while Riker refused to believe Data was Dead. Kirk wouldn't have given up on Data. Garfield Nut

 

Yes he would. Kirk didn't know Data. But here's the thing... Picard gave up on Data and still save him!

 

1849. In "The Search For Spock" on the Genesis planet, Kirk was able to convincingly impersonate Klingon to Maltz on the Bird of Prey. Garfield Nut

 

Kirk said three words. Ooh. Special.

 

1848. At the end of "The Search For Spock" it says "...and the Adventure Continues..." When did Picard's crew ever have such adventures, that such a sentence would be needed at the end of any TNG movie? Garfield Nut

 

Such a sentence would not have been needed at the end of a TNG movie. Why point out the obvious?

 

1847. Q says to Picard in "Tapestry" that "Your life ended 5 minutes ago under the inept administrations of Dr. Beverly Crusher." Kirk's doctor would never be described as inept. Garfield Nut

 

Funny, in Star Trek 6, McCoy was labeled "incompetent." Which would you choose?

 

1846. In "Tapestry" we see that Picard's father told him NOT to join Starfleet, he also said to Picard that he was dead before his time and that "After all these years,even now you manage to dissappoint me" Picard is a failure even to his own family. Garfield Nut

 

At least it didn't take over 20 years for his family to acknowledge him, like with David and Kirk.

 

1845. Q said to Picard in "Tapestry" regarding the countless voices that "These are the voices of all the people who have died because of you throughout the years.. these are the voices of all the people you've killed through your actions,through your inactions." Kirk never caused such horrific tragedies. Garfield Nut

 

Seems to me that Kirk caused a whole lot more damage!

 

1844. Q said to Picard in "Tapestry" that "It's unlike you, Jean-Luc, to have a sense of humor." Unlike Kirk, who always had a great sense of humor. Garfield Nut

 

Only when he had Spock and McCoy around.

 

1843. Kirk was never slapped in the face by a woman who then walked away in disgust, as seen in "Tapestry." The reason for the slap in the face was because Picard fixed a second date with another woman named "Penny." Kirk would have the decency never to arrange a second date and cheat on a woman. Zweller even said Picard deserved the slap! Kirk also never had a woman throw a drink in his face, as was done by Penny to Picard. Garfield Nut

 

I'm sure that Kirk has had his share of slaps and thrown drinks in his time. I mean, can anyone even count the number of women Kirk's been romantically involved in? I'm surprised he didn't catch something!

 

1842. Q said to Picard in "Tapestry" what Trek fans always knew about Picard: "To be blunt, you're not that important." Garfield Nut

 

Q tries to get under Picard's skin. Gee... what a surprise.

 

1841. At the end of "The Deadly Years" after Kirk saves the day from the Romulans, Commodore Stocker says to Kirk "I am now quite aware of what a Starship can do, with the right man at the helm." When did anyone say this about Picard? Garfield Nut

 

Those exactly words? Never. That Picard was the "right man for the job?" More times than Kirk.

 

1840. Even as Kirk was aging mentally and physically, Dr. Wallace said she saw Captain James Kirk as "A man of morality, decency, handsome and strong." Garfield Nut

 

Picard was already aging at the beginning of TNG, and has been described similarly. Your point?

 

1839. Kirk is the embodiment of the self-actualized perfect man that humanists and existential philosophers have discussed and dreamed about for centuries. Picard is not. Garfield Nut

 

When have humanists dreamed about someone like Kirk? Seems to me that they were dreaming about someone like Picard... You know, someone who uses the muscle in his head more than the others?

 

1838. "Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan," is listed in "The New York Times Guide to the Best 1,000 Movies Ever Made." None of Picard's films are even listed. Garfield Nut

 

I can't argue with that one, but it doesn't prove how Kirk is better.

 

1837. If Picard tried to support Spock so he could reach the lightbulb in the jail cell in "Patterns of Force," Picard's back would have been broken. Garfield Nut

 

Somehow, I seriously doubt that.

 

1836. In a recent poll, Kirk's show took third place in the all time most popular TV shows. By comparison, TNG came in at 47th place. Garfield Nut

 

Once again, that doesn't prove how Kirk is better.

 

1835. Kirk's games outsell Picard's games, and the game "Starfleet Academy" which featured Shatner as Kirk, was a top seller for Interplay, and when Kirk's show premiered on the Sci-Fi channel, the ratings on that network doubled in that timeslot! Garfield Nut

 

Yet again, that doesn't prove how Kirk is better. And "Kirk's" show? What, did Captain Kirk travel into the past and go to Hollywood?

 

1834. Spock said of Kirk in "The Tholian Web" that "I shall not attempt to voice the quality of respect and admiration that Captain Kirk commanded." When did anyone say this of Picard? Garfield Nut

 

Similar things have been said. One man's opinion doesn't make Kirk better.

 

1833. In the Oct/Nov 2004 Star Trek Communicator Magazine, pg 53 it says of Kirk "Kirk was the quintessence of cool." Picard was never described this way... for obvious reasons. Garfield Nut

 

Since this guy thinks the Kirk and Shatner are interchangeable, I'm going to follow suit and say... Patrick Stewart has been voted Sexiest Man of the Year. When did Shatner ever get that?

[Cramase 0]

rofl, nice one wishfire!!!

 

Go Picard!!!

[Takara_Soong 4]

Wishfire said: I think that this belongs witht the 42 reasons why Kirk is better thread in TOS.

 

But I am now going to blow holes in several of those reasons, starting at the top.

 

1850. Picard in "Time's Arrow" noted that, after Data went missing on the planet below "Despite the emotional repercussions among my crew, I must move this mission forward, and that we cannot make Mr. Data our priority." while Riker refused to believe Data was Dead. Kirk wouldn't have given up on Data. Garfield Nut

 

Yes he would. Kirk didn't know Data. But here's the thing... Picard gave up on Data and still save him!

 

I can't help but add here that Picard still had to save people from being murdered in large numbers by the aliens on the planet Data was "lost" on.

 

1849. In "The Search For Spock" on the Genesis planet, Kirk was able to convincingly impersonate Klingon to Maltz on the Bird of Prey. Garfield Nut

 

Kirk said three words. Ooh. Special.

 

I thought Picard did a very convincing job impersonating a Romulan in Unification Parts 1 and 2.

 

1847. Q says to Picard in "Tapestry" that "Your life ended 5 minutes ago under the inept administrations of Dr. Beverly Crusher." Kirk's doctor would never be described as inept. Garfield Nut

 

Funny, in Star Trek 6, McCoy was labeled "incompetent." Which would you choose?

 

Kirk and Kirk's doctor never met Q!

 

1846. In "Tapestry" we see that Picard's father told him NOT to join Starfleet, he also said to Picard that he was dead before his time and that "After all these years,even now you manage to dissappoint me" Picard is a failure even to his own family. Garfield Nut

 

At least it didn't take over 20 years for his family to acknowledge him, like with David and Kirk.

 

Picard's father wanted him to stay in France and run the vineyard. I think there are a number of parents who have said their child was a disappointment because they didn't stay in the family business.

 

1845. Q said to Picard in "Tapestry" regarding the countless voices that "These are the voices of all the people who have died because of you throughout the years.. these are the voices of all the people you've killed through your actions,through your inactions." Kirk never caused such horrific tragedies. Garfield Nut

 

Seems to me that Kirk caused a whole lot more damage!

 

A number of red shirts may disagree about Kirk and one big fact, Kirk never had to deal with the Borg!

 

1843. Kirk was never slapped in the face by a woman who then walked away in disgust, as seen in "Tapestry." The reason for the slap in the face was because Picard fixed a second date with another woman named "Penny." Kirk would have the decency never to arrange a second date and cheat on a woman. Zweller even said Picard deserved the slap! Kirk also never had a woman throw a drink in his face, as was done by Penny to Picard. Garfield Nut

 

I'm sure that Kirk has had his share of slaps and thrown drinks in his time. I mean, can anyone even count the number of women Kirk's been romantically involved in? I'm surprised he didn't catch something!

 

We know that Kirk was the serious student and Picard was more a party boy during their Academy days. Not a good example.

 

1839. Kirk is the embodiment of the self-actualized perfect man that humanists and existential philosophers have discussed and dreamed about for centuries. Picard is not. Garfield Nut

 

When have humanists dreamed about someone like Kirk? Seems to me that they were dreaming about someone like Picard... You know, someone who uses the muscle in his head more than the others?

 

How many books have been written about using Picard's command style in business. How many times has Kirk been held up as an example of the right way to do things for today's pilots.

 

1838. "Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan," is listed in "The New York Times Guide to the Best 1,000 Movies Ever Made." None of Picard's films are even listed. Garfield Nut

 

I can't argue with that one, but it doesn't prove how Kirk is better.

 

Has that guy looked at some of the movies on that list - The Breakfast Club, Clueless, Desparately Seeking Susan, Jailhouse Rock, Re-Animator (no offence to Jeffrey Combs).

 

1837. If Picard tried to support Spock so he could reach the lightbulb in the jail cell in "Patterns of Force," Picard's back would have been broken. Garfield Nut

 

Somehow, I seriously doubt that.

 

This guy obviously never watched First Contact to see how buff Picard was. When did Kirk ever fight Nausicans? How many Romulans did Kirk knock out with one punch?

 

1836. In a recent poll, Kirk's show took third place in the all time most popular TV shows. By comparison, TNG came in at 47th place. Garfield Nut

 

Once again, that doesn't prove how Kirk is better.

 

Who conducted this poll and who did they poll. TNG is the only syndicated series to EVER be nominated for the Best Series Emmy.

 

 

I just had to add my 2 cents to Wishfire's on some great rebutals.

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

I wonder if Mrs. Picard saw this.....

[Wishfire 2]

I wonder if Mrs. Picard saw this.....

290124[/snapback]

 

Maybe someone should let her know! :biggrin:

 

Hey Takara, some very good points!

[Wishfire 2]

Continuing... This is going to take a long time....

 

1832. You want to reach out, send your ships to where you know theres going to be danger, foes, and the unknown. At the same time, you want to end your-humanities history of ending all its problems with war. You want a man who who will be sudden death when threatened. But is able to convincingly offer the hand of peace. In troubled waters, you want a man who gets loyalty from his crew, even in dark times, because they know he is pushing himself too. You want Kirk. Sometime later... you take a man who cannot win loyalty from his crew, never seems approachable, and pontificates most of the time. One who knows very little of some old time foes of the Federation, and looks back on earth's past as just bad news. And hates kids. You DO NOT send this man and the crew into dangerous waters. You let them putter around in known space most of the time. That's Picard. It all fits. Pantellis P

 

"A man who cannot win loyalty from his crew..." WHAT?! When did Picard NOT win loyalty? Seems to me he got it fairly easily. And how did Kirk end our history with war? How many Klingons did he personally kill? It took him 25 years to see things differently. And why shouldn't Picard look back at Earth's history as bad news? I'm living his history, and I agree with him!

 

1831. Kirk's crew follows his mold and have backbone and stand up to authority when necessary. A few examples: Spock defies a Commodore in 'Doomsday Machine' knowing the potential consequences. McCoy in "Space Seed" telling Khan: "You are in bed holding a knife at your Doctor's throat. Either choke me or cut my throat". Scotty in "A Taste of Armaggedon" disobeys Ambassador Fox's idiotic orders, knowing he may be sent to a penal colony. They are following Kirk's lead in this respect. In contrast, Picard's crew is as spineless in the face of authority as he is. For example in "Chain of Commmand" , when Jellico takes command of the Enterprise and starts beating up on the Enterprise crew, Riker sulks and gets himself relieved of duty. In the early stages, he appeals to Picard for help, but Picard believing dogmatically and narrowly in the chain of command and offers him no help. If that was the Kirk/Spock combination, Jellico's butt would have been off the ship to defend the crew. Pardu P

 

How is McCoy's words to Kahn an example of standing up to authority? And how many times did Picard stand up and say "I'm about to commit a direct violation of orders. Who's going to object?" and everyone stays silent? And if everyone under Kirk's command has a history of disobeying orders, it's amazing they didn't all get kicked out of Starfleet. At least when Picard did it, he was saving the entire Alpha Quardrant, not just doing things his way, which Kirk did more often.

 

1830. Kirks tales didn't degrade his foes, or lower them as time went on. The Klingons remained menacing and wild, even as we learned more about them. Khan became more dangerous, and tragic. Picard saw the start of the slow de-balling of the Borg and other enemies. And look at the explanation of the Sona! Pantellis P

 

Is it Picard's fault that when he beat an enemy, he really beat them? Kirk just made them more angry.

 

1829. Kirk recalled the people he owed. Garrovick, Ben Finney, and Gary Mitchell. When have we heard Picard speak about the previous captain of the Stargazer? Or anyone that he had met, aside from the stereotypical Boothby? Pantellis P

 

Can you say "Jack Crusher?"

 

1828. Kirk's romances were believable. The admiration turning into more (Edith Keeler). The slow revelation of his life with Carol in Star Trek II, the bitter meeting with Janice Lester. Picard? An almost non existant relationship with Beverly. One screwed up, and one that we never get to learn about. He finds real passion at one time, and he can't handle it....and then the stagey, cheeeeeesy relationship in "Insurrection"! Kirk's relationships start from Kirk and the other person; from character. Picard's realtionships start from plot contrivances. Pantellis P

 

"An almost non existant relationship with Beverly." So Picard actually had respect for his dead best friend. Seems to me that that's a good thing.

 

1827. Kirk had the real idyllic societies. A group of colonists under the immortal influence of the spores! A Greek god offering Elysium in return for worship! The people protected from all ill by Vaal! And as a real positive one; The preserved native american society in THE PARADISE SYNDROME! Picard? A rather cheesy Shangri-La, created by people who gave up technology (though not the memory of it!)because they were destroying themselves on their homeworld. Sounds like the Baku were pretty warlike originally! Pantellis P

 

So how were these societies idyllic? Almost all were either arrested development, or under the influence of someone Kirk knew. Hmmm... At least the Baku realised that they were messing up and took steps to iprove themselves! Either way, how do other societies make Kirk better?

 

Stay tuned for more! (I wonder if I'll actually work my way down to 1...)

[Wishfire 2]

Here's my biggest reason why Picard is better...

 

Who else but Picard would smash his ship into an enemy...

 

Click For Spoiler

 

..and then commit actions that basically say, "I'm not done yet!"

[Capt_Picard 0]

I just think that a guy that needs to wear a tribble on his head is not a good as a guy who takes what he gots and uses it.

P.S. I'll tell Mrs. Picard!

[Mr.Picard 12]

Go, wishfire :o

 

I choose a diplomatic answer to all those reasons why Kirk is better, I answer with a quote from my dear hubby. ( :unsure: )

 

"Sometimes you just have to bow to the absurd."

 

Oh and wishfire, go on

[Wishfire 2]

Go, wishfire 

 

I choose a diplomatic answer to all those reasons why Kirk is better, I answer with a quote from my dear hubby. ( )

 

"Sometimes you just have to bow to the absurd."  :o

 

Oh and wishfire, go on  :unsure:

290632[/snapback]

 

Yeah, thanks! I will go on!

[Wishfire 2]

And for some more...

 

1826. When it comes to Picard facing a bad guy, the only way to get him motivated is for the bad guy to have some connection to Picard. And even then, Picard starts off by trying to change the man before battling him; thus allowing the bad guy to gain more power. For example, in "Nemesis," Shinzon was his clone, and thus it was suddenly Picard's job to help Shinzon. That is, until he found Shinzon was actually evil and then Picard went to kill him. If it was just a regular Reman who was threatening the Federation, Picard would have feigned interest, and instead of trying to find an alternative to battle he would have immediately raised shields and charge weapons rather than listen to the man. Picard has it all wrong. Kirk is all business when it comes to facing an enemy and won't go around saying, "Hmmm, I wonder if we're really the same person. In the meantime, I'll let my guard down while I'm staring down the barrel of a guy who was raised by Romulans, the race which started a war with the Federation in the late 2150's and since then has been formulating plots to overtake the UFP." Kirk has always shown he knows how to handle a situation, rather than let his emotions get in the way. l mean, just imagine if Shinzon were not only Picard's clone but also a Borg...Oh boy, Picard would be so emotionally distraught Shinzon would have destroyed Earth in less than a day while Picard just stood there in a daze. MDBBCLUB

 

I don't think this guy knows what he was talking about... "If it was just a regular Reman who was threatening the Federation, Picard would have feigned interest, and instead of trying to find an alternative to battle he would have immediately raised shields and charge weapons rather than listen to the man." Isn't that basically one of the things that Kirk was infamous for? I think this guy just proved another way that Picard is better!

 

1825. In "First Contact," when Picard and his Away Team find their fellow crewmembers being turned into Borg on the lower decks of the Enterprise, Picard actually shoots and kills a crewman who is pleading with Picard for help. Obviously they can turn them back into a human; they did it for Picard! And at the end of "Nemesis," Picard is actually going to blow up the Enterprise with his crew still ON the ship! Fortunately, the self destruct didn't work. Of course, this didn't prevent Picard from still being willing to kill his entire crew by ramming the ship! Kirk was NEVER so easily willing to kill his crewmen like Picard. Arrakkis

 

Yeah, they can turn Borg back into people, but they have to do surgery on each person individually, while the Borg can simply stick their little assimilation straws into someone's neck and POOF! that's all she wrote. As for the end of Nemesis, well, anyone with a heart would be willing to sacrifice about 1000 people (especially if they've already proven that they're willing to die under that person's command) if it means saving the billions of people on Earth. I know I would.

 

1824. Will they let just anybody assume an active duty position aboard a starship in Picard's Starfleet? Picard somehow was able to just slap uniforms onto three non-Starfleet Academy graduates and assign them posts aboard his ship. The first, or course being an underage boy (Wesley Crusher), the second being the loathesome Ensign Ro (who was given the choice of serving aboard the Enterprise or time in prison!), and best of all, the temporarily powerless Q, a raving psychotic who has terrorized countless beings and worlds! How is this sort of thing allowed when Starfleet Academy is supposedly so hard to get into? How did Picard know for sure that Q wasn't just screwing with his head in some new way? None of it makes a lick of sense, and it just illustrates the stupidity of Picard, and the phoniness of his version of Starfleet. Ray K

 

First of all acting-ensign Crusher. Secondly, if Ensign Ro didn't graduate, why did Starfleet asign her to the Enterprise? And why did she already have the rank of Ensign when she got there? Finally, I don't recall Q being commissioned. Yeah, he helped out, but Picard was smart enough to get the assistance of someone who knew more about how the universe works.

 

1823. Kirk could easily end a serious and dangerous adventure with a good, hearty laugh with his crew, therefore keeping up morale and creating a more friendly environment . Picard frequently would merely scowl a lot and have a crabby attitude, contributing no morale whatsoever. Captain Outrageous

 

And if TNG had been written back in the 60's, all their adventures would've ended with a joke and a laugh. Either way, it seems to me that the flagship of the Federation is not the place for constant joking.

 

1822. When Kirk rescues someone from 20th-century Earth out of deep-freeze from space, he throws them a formal dinner in full-dress regalia and honors, as well as giving them full access to the ship's libraries in making sure they have a chance to adapt after two 200 years ("Space Seed"). And even after they try to take over his ship and destroy it, he goes out of his way to give them what they want-- Kirk understands and has compassion. When Picard rescues people from Earth in the same manner, he IGNORES them, and treats them like crap before arrogantly lecturing them and sending them away-- even when one of them can read Romulans better than anyone on his ship. What a pompous *buttocks* Picard is! The Bermanator

 

Kirk only had to worry about some people taking over his ship. Picard was trying to deal with a little threat known as the Romulan Star Empire! It wouldn't look good on his record if he could have prevented an invasion and didn't.

 

1821. When Kirk finds a mother alien defending her young, he saves her even at great risk to himself ("The Devil in the Dark"). When Picard meets the same, he kills her ("Galaxy's Child"). The Bermanator

 

Correction: When Kirk finds a mother alien defending her young, he saves her even at great risk to himself - after he tries and fails to kill her. When Picard meets the same, he kills her - Oh, waitaminute, he didn't know about a creature that hadn't been born yet. But when he finds out, he helps it be born and brings it to members of it's species... at great risk to not only himself, but also to his ship and crew.

 

1820. Kirk left a lasting impression on many of his other contemporaries while teaching at Starfleet Academy, including R.M. Merrick. Years later, Merrick still remembered Kirk as an example of all that was best about Starfleet officers. Garfield Nut

 

R.M. Merrick - a character who, according to startrek.com, was a "Starfleet Academy washout." Good job, Kirk! People choose you as a role-model, and then flunk out!

 

1819. Kirk cared about his ships. Picard at the end of "Generations" is more concerned with finding a stupid photo album than he is about the loss of his ship. Garfield Nut

 

As if it was Picard's fault his ship was destroyed. He was fighting Dr. Soran, trying to rescue an entire civilization! And once he did find out about the destruction of his ship, what was he supposed to do? Throw a tantrum over his loss? Or look for something that meant just as much to him (especially as it contained some of his only remaining links to his recently deceased brother and nephew)?

 

1818. In the 35th Anniversary TV Guide Star Trek Tribute, Picard is described as "joyless". And it further says "We've never seen [Picard] really having fun, fully enjoying and experience just for the sake of the experience." This happened to Kirk frequently! Garfield Nut

 

Yeah, it happened to Kirk so much I have no clue how he maintained command, let alone get promoted to Admiral. And in the TNG episode "Lessons" he goes into the Jeffries Tube with his new-found love to play music. Looks to me like he was haviong fun and fully enjoying and experiencing just for the sake of the experience.

 

1817. In "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," Lokai says to Kirk "You speak very well, Captain. Your words promise justice for all" When did anyone say this about Picard? Garfield Nut

 

Q accused humans of being barbaric, a race without morals or justice. Seems to me that Q's word would weigh heavier than anyone else's, simply because Q could make all humans vanish with just a thought. Did I mention the Picard proved Q wrong?

 

1816. In "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," Kirk was strong enough to restrain Lokai and Bele at different points. Picard would have needed security. Garfield Nut

 

Picard would have "needed" security? No, Picard could have done the same as Kirk. Picard took on several Nausicans, and was winning! Until one Nausican pulled out a blade and stabbed Picard. But Picard is the one who would've needed security... riiight!

[Wishfire 2]

Time for more!!!

 

1815. Even in a crisis, Kirk exercises restraint, using deadly force only when absolutely necessary; in "Space Seed" Kirk avoids hitting Khan in the head with the pipe, in order to avoid killing him; and likewise when Khan returns, Kirk restrains himself from blowing Khan's ship to smithereens despite the danger it creates as a result-- in either situation, killing Khan would have solved the problems created afterward, but Kirk values life too much to "play God." Meanwhile Picard either stupidly trusts a ruthless enemy like the Cardassians ("The Wounded") which endangers others, or else kills needlessly when it's not even remotely necessary; it seems Picard doesn't have the slightest problem with arbitrarily deciding who lives and who dies. The Bermanator

 

I've always seen Picard as someone who gives great though to the subject of "who should live and who should die" and Kirk as someone who shoots first and asks later. Maybe Picard stupidly trusted a ruthless enemy, but couldn't the same thing be said of Kirk when he didn't kill Kahn? Couldn't the same be said of Kirk when he left Kahn of Ceti Alpha V rather than sending him to a Federation prison?

 

1814. When Kirk's body was stolen by Janice Lester in "Turnabout Intruder," he verified by telling Spock verifiable information, and finally mind-melded with Spock to prove it; likewise, his crew, who knew him best, stood by him regardless of Dr. Lester's best attempts to fool them by making Kirk look crazy. Meanwhile, when Picard believed that he was time-travelling in "All Good Things," he didn't even bother to simply verify it objectively via such "inside information" or similar measures-- leading his equally-inept crew to the (quite understandable) conclusion that Picard was a senile old loon who had simply slipped his leash; likewise, Picard's so-called "most trusted friends" all turned their backs on him in his moment of greatest need-- except, ironically, for a heartless android, who was the only one that believed Picard when trust and loyalty were most crucial-- and despite that Q did nothing to interfere or make Picard look insane (Picard did that quite well on his own). The Bermanator

 

Oh yeah, like Picard could mind-meld with any of them. But in the end, they all believed him anyways.

 

1813. When Picard is with an Admiral he may like: He's formal, official, and being his usual sycophantic self. When Picard is with an Admireal he isn't supposed to like, such as Admiral Necheyev, she puts him in his place. When Kirk is with an official he has problems with, Kirk makes it plain he's ready to take action himself, as the Enterprise is HIS ship. When Kirk is with an Admiral he likes, such as Admiral Bob, Kirk talks to him with a laid back, calm attitude. Bob responds the same way. It's plain the two are freinds, and probably have had an adventure or two. Has Picard, for all his ways, been that human with an Admiral? Pantellis P

 

All that proves is that Kirk and Picard came from entirely different backgrounds. It proves in no way that either one is better than the other.

 

1812. In Kirk's day, Tricorders looked for PEOPLE. How many countless times with Picard has the "Hehehehe! I've stolen his commbadge!" worked? Pantellis P

Actually, the tricorders looked for life-signs. They could detect the race, but not the person. And the commbadge being stolen doesn't mean that someone tricks everyone else. Not everyone has Picard's voice, and even if they could duplicate his voice, the transporters of Picard's ship can detect the differences (if someone is looking for them).

 

1811. Unlike Picard, Kirk rarely had to communicate his intentions more than once. Aliens, Starfleet, and villains of any stripe rarely had second guesses! Dennis B

 

If Picard told me that he was going to blow up my ship, I'd have no second guesses!

 

1810. In the TNG episode "Homeward," Picard allowed the destruction of a planet. Picard let millions of lives die without hesitation . And why? There was NO reason. Nothing to win. A whole culture was destroyed because of... NOTHING.

 

"Nothing?" Don't you mean "Prime Directive?" Someone thing that Picard holds in the highest standard?

 

1809. In the TNG episode "Redemption," Picard stands by and does nothing while Gowron's ship is attacked by two Birds of Prey. His rationale? "We will be pulled into the feud." Kirk has never done anything this offensive.

 

If Kirk had, and his actions resulted in the Federation being drawn into a war, how fast do you suppose he'd be stripped of command?

 

1808. When Picard reveals that the Federation developed a practical phasing shield, that was treasonous. His superiors had decided that they were not going to honor the Romulan treaty. It wasn't Picard's place to overrule that decision. It was his job to do as he was ordered. Having to explain the phase-cloak to the Romulans (who'd never believe that the Federation was really abandoning such technology, even if they said they were) would potentially lead to far more problems that it would solve. He made his decision arbitrarily, not as a diplomat OR a soldier. Kirk has never resorted to such behavior that would get the Federation into deeper trouble.

 

He was following orders set forth by the Treaty of Algeron. Orders which even his superiors must obey. So it's his superiors who were committing treason, not Picard. Kirk probably would've gone along with it, therefore committed treason himself.

 

1807. In the TNG episode "The Wounded," Picard hangs Maxwell out to dry, even though he believes Maxwell is right about the Cardassians! How could any Trek fan get behind his, "I'm going to pretend you're not doing what you're doing." attitude? Kirk never ignores such things.

 

Maxwell destroyed an unarmed space station and an unarmed cargo ship, as well as a Cardassian warship, based completely on a hunch. If Picard had let him go and Maxwell's hunch turned out to be untrue, it would've been Picard who would've been hung out to dry... and worse!

 

1806. Picard refuses to order Worf to donate blood. This was just another instance in which Picard's petty moralizing annoys Trek fans to no end. Kirk, on the other hand, risks his own mortality in order to get Spock to donate blood to save Sarek.

 

Funny, but Picard's morals have always been a source of inspiration to Trek fans, not annoyance. Of course, there's Trek fans who'll disagree.

 

1805. In the TNG episode "Descent," Picard, while being pursued by a Borg ship over three times the size of the Enterprise, sends nearly his entire senior staff on an away team to an unknown Borg-occupied planet, in an unknown location, and leaves command of the ship to the chief medical officer! Kirk never makes such blunders.

 

A chief medical officer who is also a registered bridge officer, fully capable of command. And her actions proved it.

[Crazy-Trek-Kitten 0]

He he that why quite funny does I am 65 and i still look good count?

Yes cheap shot at kirk i know

[Yillara Skye 1]

1805. In the TNG episode "Descent," Picard, while being pursued by a Borg ship over three times the size of the Enterprise, sends nearly his entire senior staff on an away team to an unknown Borg-occupied planet, in an unknown location, and leaves command of the ship to the chief medical officer!  Kirk never makes such blunders.

 

A chief medical officer who is also a registered bridge officer, fully capable of command. And her actions proved it.

291126[/snapback]

And if I am correct in recalling... not only a registered bridge officer but also holds the rank of Commander ( I could be incorrect, because I have not checked her bio over at ST.com yet)

Edited January 30, 2005 by Yillara_Soong

[Takara_Soong 4]

I had to add my 2 cents to some of these things posted.

 

Sometime later... you take a man who cannot win loyalty from his crew...

 

Picard's crew were willing to die for him. Even in AGT, in the past timeline, the crew was willing to follow him even though he had just taken command of the Enterprise.

 

1831. In contrast, Picard's crew is as spineless in the face of authority as he is. For example in "Chain of Commmand" , when Jellico takes command of the Enterprise and starts beating up on the Enterprise crew, Riker sulks and gets himself relieved of duty. In the early stages, he appeals to Picard for help, but Picard believing dogmatically and narrowly in the chain of command and offers him no help. If that was the Kirk/Spock combination, Jellico's butt would have been off the ship to defend the crew. Pardu P

 

I don't think this person saw Redemption Part 2. Data presents himself for disciplinary action for disobeying Picard's orders while Data was commanding the Sutherland. Picard tells Data that Starfleet doesn't want officers who blindly follow orders and compliments him on his actions.

 

in "Nemesis," Shinzon was his clone, and thus it was suddenly Picard's job to help Shinzon. That is, until he found Shinzon was actually evil and then Picard went to kill him. If it was just a regular Reman who was threatening the Federation, Picard would have feigned interest, and instead of trying to find an alternative to battle he would have immediately raised shields and charge weapons rather than listen to the man.

 

First off, when the Enterprise was sent to Romulus it was to negotiate peace. When the Scimitar first made an appearance Picard had assumed the Viceroy was Shinzon. They didn't know Shinzon was human or a clone of Picard's until the face to face meeting later.

 

the second being the loathesome Ensign Ro (who was given the choice of serving aboard the Enterprise or time in prison!),...

 

Ro was a Starfleet graduate. She was imprisoned because of her alleged actions on an away mission in which all the others were killed. Also, Ro was initially transferred to the Enterprise without Picard's knowledge or consent by that admiral who was trying to kill the Maquis leaders.

 

1820. Kirk left a lasting impression on many of his other contemporaries while teaching at Starfleet Academy, including R.M. Merrick...

 

And Picard was thought highly enough to have been offered the position of Commandant of the Academy but he turned it down.

 

1815. ...Meanwhile Picard either stupidly trusts a ruthless enemy like the Cardassians ("The Wounded") which endangers others, or else kills needlessly when it's not even remotely necessary; it seems Picard doesn't have the slightest problem with arbitrarily deciding who lives and who dies. The Bermanator

 

In "The Wounded", Picard was under orders to find Maxwell and bring him in. I believe he was also ordered to have the Cardassians on board as well. Also, Picard didn't trust the Cardassians, hence his warning to his counterpart at the end.

 

1814. Meanwhile, when Picard believed that he was time-travelling in "All Good Things," he didn't even bother to simply verify it objectively via such "inside information" or similar measures-- leading his equally-inept crew to the (quite understandable) conclusion that Picard was a senile old loon who had simply slipped his leash; likewise, Picard's so-called "most trusted friends" all turned their backs on him in his moment of greatest need-- except, ironically, for a heartless android, who was the only one that believed Picard when trust and loyalty were most crucial-- and despite that Q did nothing to interfere or make Picard look insane (Picard did that quite well on his own). The Bermanator

 

Isn't this apples and oranges. The crews in all three time lines knew it was Picard so how would "inside information" help this situation.

 

I strongly object to the use of the term "heartless" to describe Data. Even without emotions, Data was NOT heartless. As well, if this guy had actually watched the episode he would have seen that Data had emotions in the future part.

 

1813. When Picard is with an Admiral he may like: He's formal, official, and being his usual sycophantic self. When Picard is with an Admireal he isn't supposed to like, such as Admiral Necheyev, she puts him in his place. When Kirk is with an official he has problems with, Kirk makes it plain he's ready to take action himself, as the Enterprise is HIS ship. When Kirk is with an Admiral he likes, such as Admiral Bob, Kirk talks to him with a laid back, calm attitude. Bob responds the same way.  It's plain the two are freinds, and probably have had an adventure or two. Has Picard, for all his ways, been that human with an Admiral? Pantellis P

 

I don't think Pantellis P has watched any TNG. There were plenty of admirals that Picard was friends with. He did address some as Admiral but there were others he called by first name. Admirals he was obviously friends with included Admiral Quinn ("Coming of Age" and Conspiracy") and Admiral Hanson (BOBW). The only admiral he had any "problems" with was Admiral Nechayev but he certainly made an effort to correct that.

 

1806. Picard refuses to order Worf to donate blood. This was just another instance in which Picard's petty moralizing annoys Trek fans to no end. Kirk, on the other hand, risks his own mortality in order to get Spock to donate blood to save Sarek.

 

This person is critisizing Picard for not ordering Worf to donate blood, yet Kirk didn't order Spock to give blood either. Kirk had to "risk his mortality" to get Spock to donate blood to save his father. Picard meanwhile wasn't able to convince Worf to donate ribosomes to a Klingon blood enemy who didn't want Klingon blood in him.

Edited January 30, 2005 by Takara_Soong

[prometheus 0]

Picard is a real man wheras Kirek is an idealist,,,