Season 7

[Lursa 0]

Hello everyone,

 

But if you have been watching season 7, but i noiced that the relationships are beginning to get stronger by the min. The bond between Odo and Kira is cute, And Worf and Eszi are getting along just fine. But sometimes i wonder why does captain Sisko have such a hard time finding the path he was meant to be on. Sometimes, I understand how he feels because it must be so hard to understand where you belong and how you are supposed to fit in. So, if anyone is watching season enjoy it, because there are many lessons to learn from it.

[ddillard 2]

When considering why Sisko is having so much trouble finding his path you have to remember that he grew up in a society whose beliefs were based in science not religion so the religious path is one that is not easy for him to accept.

[Wishfire 2]

When considering why Sisko is having so much trouble finding his path you have to remember that he grew up in a society whose beliefs were based in science not religion so the religious path is one that is not easy for him to accept.

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So, basically, you're saying that his brain says "NOOOOO!!!!!" while his heart says, "Go for it!"

[gul_nodrog 2]

I agree with ddillard. It must be very difficult to wrap your mind around something that is so foreign to everything you've been around all your life. Sisko obviously has a scientific background and has trouble embracing a spiritual one because he has been "crippled" by science.

 

I believe that science and spirituality are not mutually exclusive ... in fact, the more science reveals the more spiritual I feel. For me, they are but two halves of the same whole. Hopefully, that is what Sisko comes to realize ... there is nothing wrong with recognizing a greater power even within the context of science.

[Lursa 0]

Yeah i agree with ya,

 

After seeing the ending of DS9 it shows that he had finally found his place has a god to be guided by the phophets. So i thought that the last episode "Those you leave behind" Is a great way to end it. No matter how much you may be far apart, a piece of friendship the people that you care about are with you always.

 

Lursa

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Sisko's 7 year arc is really an interesting one to follow. We watch him go from wanting to leave Starfleet and being a very angry man to being a religious icon that wants to do the will of the Prophets.

 

Very interesting character development for sure.

[Kor37 9]

I was somewhat disappointed that Sisko ended up embracing the Bajoran religion. I liked it when he was uncomfortable in his role as the Emmissary. I guess if people constantly tell you that you are a religious figure, you end up believing your own press.

[gul_nodrog 2]

^I guess if a person ever actually met a god face-to-face like Sisko did, they'd become a believer pretty quick.

 

I felt differently in that I was glad when Sisko finally stopped being so skeptical and reluctant and began to embrace the Bajoran faith. Since Star Trek cannot promote Christianity, Judaeism, Hinduism, or any other ism, at the risk of offending its diverse fan base, I found the Bajoran religion a fine addition to the franchise, a little leavening for all the techno-babble if you will.

 

Just me.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

^I guess if a person ever actually met a god face-to-face like Sisko did, they'd become a believer pretty quick.

That's what I was going to say also, after having the experiences that he had with the Profits he really had no choice but to believe.

[Dark Reality 0]

I believe that science and spirituality are not mutually exclusive ... in fact, the more science reveals the more spiritual I feel. For me, they are but two halves of the same whole. Hopefully, that is what Sisko comes to realize ... there is nothing wrong with recognizing a greater power even within the context of science.

I see what you're saying... It reminds me of something Dan Brown said in either "Angels & Demons" or "The DaVinci Code". That science and religion are both searching for the truth. From my perspective, science starts out assuming nothing and searching for truths, while religion starts with assumptions and tries to prove those... but I see the best scientific mind and the best religious people as doing the same thing, searching for the truth, for their place in the universe. The religious have nothing to fear from science if their religion is true, as science will eventually lead to what they've been saying all along. It's those with shaken faith who are afraid science will discover contradictions.

 

I was somewhat disappointed that Sisko ended up embracing the Bajoran religion. I liked it when he was uncomfortable in his role as the Emmissary. I guess if people constantly tell you that you are a religious figure, you end up believing your own press.

Did you see all the season 7 episodes? Or did you miss a few? I only ask because Sisko learns something that pretty much cinches the deal for him. I'll post it, but only as a spoiler.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

He finds out that his mother wasn't his mother, but rather another woman, who was posessed by a Prophet (wormhole alien?) and therefore Sisko is part Prophet, and they've been "wating" for him his whole life, maybe even set certain things in motion to get him to the DS9 assignment. In the later episodes, he speaks with his mother, not as a prophet, but actually as his mother.

 

^I guess if a person ever actually met a god face-to-face like Sisko did, they'd become a believer pretty quick.

 

I felt differently in that I was glad when Sisko finally stopped being so skeptical and reluctant and began to embrace the Bajoran faith. Since Star Trek cannot promote Christianity, Judaeism, Hinduism, or any other ism, at the risk of offending its diverse fan base, I found the Bajoran religion a fine addition to the franchise, a little leavening for all the techno-babble if you will.

 

Just me.

Same here, if I were Sisko, I'd be a believer. And I'm an atheist... that's what I love about DS9, that like Sisko, I was able to go from being skeptical about the wormhole aliens as he was, to believing in them, at least through him and his crew.

[gul_nodrog 2]

It's those with shaken faith who are afraid science will discover contradictions.

 

Truer words have never been spoken. Is that an original statement or are you quoting something? I only ask because it is a fairly eloquent way of saying what I've been trying to put into words for quite some time!

[Krissy Phaserman 0]

Science and Religion attempt to answer the same questions: Who are we, Why are we here, and what is our purpose. Some will accept one, and exclude the other, others will accept both, and some will say screw it all, and start worshipping George Carlin. I think Sisko tried to balance the two, and in the end, he became a god, as Rick Berman put it in the Season 7 Extras on the DVD.

[Kor37 9]

I guess if a person ever actually met a god face-to-face like Sisko did, they'd become a believer pretty quick.

 

Q or several other alien species we've seen on Trek could have done the same thing as these "prophets" did. I still feel that the "Prophets" were incredibly powerful alien beings who cared for the Bajorans as we do our pets. If they were "God", Sisko would not have had to explain so much to them in the pilot episode.

 

Also, please don't misinterpret my comments as a slam on any religion or on religion in general. I myself am a practicing Christian and I have no desire to put down anyone's religion. This is just my belief as to who the "Prophets" really are. I respect the other views stated here.

[Itchygomba69 0]

yeah the Prophets never seemed as powerful as Q to me, so I'm gonna agree with KOR

[Matt 0]

I'm with Kor37 on this one too. I'd always believed that they wormhole aliens and not gods or demi-gods of any kind. I'd always considered the Q to be far more powerful, they are omnipotent after all.

[Dark Reality 0]

It's those with shaken faith who are afraid science will discover contradictions.

Truer words have never been spoken. Is that an original statement or are you quoting something? I only ask because it is a fairly eloquent way of saying what I've been trying to put into words for quite some time!

It's not intended to be a quote, but it may have been said before. But no, that came from me.

 

I guess if a person ever actually met a god face-to-face like Sisko did, they'd become a believer pretty quick.

Q or several other alien species we've seen on Trek could have done the same thing as these "prophets" did. I still feel that the "Prophets" were incredibly powerful alien beings who cared for the Bajorans as we do our pets. If they were "God", Sisko would not have had to explain so much to them in the pilot episode.

 

Also, please don't misinterpret my comments as a slam on any religion or on religion in general. I myself am a practicing Christian and I have no desire to put down anyone's religion. This is just my belief as to who the "Prophets" really are. I respect the other views stated here.

I sort of agree with your take on the wormhole aliens. Dean Koontz said in his book The Taking (though I believe he was quoting another author) that if aliens visited us which were 1,000 years more advanced than we were, their technology would appear to us, to be magic. So maybe the wormhole aliens are just that much more advanced than everyone else (besides Q) and appeared godlike. But the same could be said for any religion. With all due respect to Christians, the Christian God could well be an alien, much more advanced than us... I mean, the Bible never says he's a Man... Christ was a man, essentially made by God (much more directly than the rest of us), but as we're practically able to clone, "making a man" is not far from our own abilities... So the Christian "God" could just as easily be an alien which has taken an interest in us. But it changes nothing... whether the Christian God is an omnipotent force, or a really powerful alien, he's still more powerful than we are, and it wouldn't change much scripture (which is itself written by man, passed down through generations from those who originally experienced it but couldn't write it down). I think the point may be that it doesn't matter if God is real or not, if you believe, that's all that counts. I believe it's Kira that actually states that directly in one episode.

 

yeah the Prophets never seemed as powerful as Q to me, so I'm gonna agree with KOR

Maybe, maybe not. Q was just a showoff. The Prophets were much more reserved. The most they did, really, was wipe the Dominion fleet in the wormhole out, and only after Sisko practically begged them to intervene. Practically everything else they did could be rationally explained through other means. But that goes back to my previous point, that the Bajorans believed they were Gods and that is good enough for them.

 

I myself am an atheist, but I'm willing to "consider" any religion at face value; though not accepting it as truth for myself (I consider myself on my own path, out to discover my own truths on my own terms) I do know a fair bit about Christianity (having it forced on me for a while when I was growing up) and its teachings... I don't believe it as fact, but I can debate it (on both sides) based on my knowledge of it. I also would never tell anyone their religion is wrong, only that it is not for me personally.

[mj 7]

From my perspective, science starts out assuming nothing and searching for truths, while religion starts with assumptions and tries to prove those... but I see the best scientific mind and the best religious people as doing the same thing, searching for the truth, for their place in the universe. The religious have nothing to fear from science if their religion is true, as science will eventually lead to what they've been saying all along. It's those with shaken faith who are afraid science will discover contradictions.

 

 

I disagree with this characterization of science and religion. Science does not start out with 'nothing': it starts with a perspective about how truth can be demonstrated, called the scientific method. That restricts what it will accept as truth. It is scientific truth, not TRUTH with a capital 'T', that science yields. Similarly, in mathematics, formal logic excludes all 'sentences' for which we cannot make a decision about whether it is true or false. This leaves a very small subclass of language which can be investigated through methods involving logic and proof.

 

On the other hand, religious truths are upheld by faith, not proof. While it is nice when scientific truth is consistent with spiritual truth, the believer will not be swayed by whatever science claims to have proved to be truth if it contradicts fundamental tenets of the faith. I do not worry about creationism vs evolution because in Hebrews 11 there is a scripture that captures my perspective completely: "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God...." (One version more succintly states 'By fath we know..').

 

How this applies to Sisko in my opinion is the following. I am not convinced that Sisko ever took a religious perspective like that which Kira held. There was no element of faith. I think his relationship to the prophets, over time, became one where he repsected what the wormhole aliens had done for Bajor both culturally and in terms of stability, understood their special ability to live outside of 'linear time', hence givng them true 'prophetic' abilities, and understood and accepted (eventually) the role that the wormhole aliens had destined him to play. It's just that all of this development of the role he had to play as spiritual icon never quite assumed a true spirituality. I am also not convinced that the wormhole aliens saw themselves as 'gods'. I think the difficulty in communication between 'linear' and 'nonlinear' species contributed to the mysteriousness, and the development of a religion on Bajor centered around the attempted communications. Just an opinion.

[gul_nodrog 2]

I am also not convinced that the wormhole aliens saw themselves as 'gods'. I think the difficulty in communication between 'linear' and 'nonlinear' species contributed to the mysteriousness, and the development of a religion on Bajor centered around the attempted communications. Just an opinion.

 

I agree with this statement ... the Prophets were only gods in the eyes of the Bajorans. From their own perspective, I don't think they saw themselves as gods only as non-linear beings. On the other hand, they must have been very concerned with Bajor's welfare ... why else would they have engineered Sisko's birth? Why else would they even have needed an "Emissary" to the Bajoran people? Plus, they were always saying, "We are of Bajor." I wonder what that meant?

 

I don't know if I'd categorize them as aliens or as a species in general ... they were non-corporeal. I guess they were just intelligent sentient energy. Which gets us back to the aliens vs. god thing, and now that I've typed all this out, I'm back to thinking of them as gods. :(

 

Hey, only Ira Behr can tell us for sure, and in the special feature interview with him he was all carrying on about how he "made Sisko a god" in the final episode. I guess that answers the big "what are the Prophets" question!