Captain Bolivar 0 Posted October 29, 2004 Hey fellow fans! Last week there was a new twist on the spoilers. This caused some controversy, so for the time being, or possibly forever, the spoilers will be used as NORMAL! I know, I know... when will I make up my mind. However, in fairness please try not to talk of upcoming episodes in this topic thread - as that was the only reason for the spoiler twist last week. I believe there is a topic specifically for upcoming episode spoilers, so try that out if your itching to gossip about Enterprise's future! Sound fair? I hope so! Okay, nuff said. Now go watch Enterprise when it comes on. And watch it for the both of us, cause I have a bday AND a Halloween party to go to. Oh the sadness of having to socialize in the stead of Star Trek. Tear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surax 0 Posted October 30, 2004 Okay, gonna try this spoiler thing. Click For Spoiler One thing that has always bugged me about Enterprise is how it has abandoned the other series. It has ignored many preconceptions built by the other shows. While the producers have tried to make this original, which it did to a certain extent last season, they has ignored the obvious storylines that come from building up to the other series. It seems to me that Borderland is changing this. Borderland was pretty good. It appears that this 3-part series will build up to the political situation present in TOS between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. As well, the 3-parter after it will settle any differences in the Vulcan personna compared with the other series'. For the first episode in the trilogy, it was decent. I do however expect better from it. Spinner didn't seem evil enough for me. He seemed more intent on justifying his work. But, since he is with his "family" again, I am hoping for more evilness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fenriz275 0 Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) Click For Spoiler I think Brent Spiner was very good as the villian. It was also nice to see the Orions again. They've been mentioned a lot but I don't recall ever seeing them since TOS. I also like seeing the "Augments" again. Khan is one of my favorite Trek villians, I really liked seeing the Augments actually demonstrating their physical abilites. Good Lord! A point blank shot from a phase pistol didn't stop these guys. They certainly made short work of those Klingons in the first scene as well. I can see now why the Augments were so dangerous. They consider normal humans a lesser species to be used and discarded at will. It really adds dimension to why humans in the Trek universe react so negatively to any form of genetic engineering in a sentient species. Even in the time of DS9 it's still a strictly enforced ban. Spiner's character reminds me, at least from this on episode, of Gul Dukat. He feels like he has been wronged and is intent on proving why he was jusitfied in his actions. He almost becomes a sympathetic character when he reveals his true nature. It reminds me of how there aren't many convincing villians who see themselves as evil. In their mind they are right and everyone else is wrong. I can't hardly wait to see how this story develops over the next two episodes. Overall I think this story arc is filling in a nice bit of backstory for the Trek universe. Edited October 30, 2004 by fenriz275 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tina 0 Posted October 30, 2004 My cup runneth over. I hate Enterprise.Not because this episode sucked. Not for the Space Seed people or the orions (my dad loved the slave girl) But because it...was...GOOD (gag) it pains me. to say that i am wrong,but time will tell if they keep this good track going Click For Spoiler So borderland huh? looked like the nuetral zone to me. Did everyone see the Klingon Capt in the beginning? Was that the same guy from Undiscovered country? Jeez. i heard some old TOS sounds when Archer was on the bridge too Ok ok one more thing Did anyone think Soong was a tad bit like Hannibal Lecter (without the Cannibal thing)? Maybe a tad bit like LORE Is it me or am i nit picking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted October 30, 2004 I give it an 8.5 It was a good episode and I look forward to the following episodes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeanway 0 Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) Click For Spoiler Oh Yes, Mr. Soong is NOT a very nice man at all. So this episode was well before he created 'Data', right? Or is that a different Soong?? Well, at least we know now, from the upcoming preview, his mother was a "Chemist" I thought tonight's 'Augments' smacked of 'BattleStar Gallactica' or some other B rated SciFi Series, no offense. And where'd they get those Slave Traders? The WWF???? Big and Mean and Green!!! Edited October 31, 2004 by mj Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tina 0 Posted October 30, 2004 Click For Spoiler Oh yeah the Big show. they was he picked up T'pol like a doll was sorta tacky. Which reminds me..Did she get married or somthing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho42 13 Posted October 30, 2004 Click For Spoiler Did she get married or somthing? 276634[/snapback] Yeah, she got married to a Vulcan by the name of Koss on the last episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho42 13 Posted October 30, 2004 Click For Spoiler Oh Yes, Mr. Soong is NOT a very nice man at all. So this episode was well before he created 'Data', right? Or is that a different Soong?? 276626[/snapback] Actually, this episode was about Dr. Arik Soong, who comes before Dr. Noonien Soong [He who created Data, Lore, and B-4]. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KayTroi 0 Posted October 30, 2004 I gave it a nine out of ten. I liked the concept of a Soong ancestor aboard Enterprise. I look forward to seeing the episodes that follow. :( :( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaz4stfguy 0 Posted October 30, 2004 I also gave the show a 9 out of 10. I missed portions of the show, including the ending, due to storm alerts ~~there was a tornado watch ~~ and the station going off the air. Oh, well, I enjoyed what I did see. I will try to see the entire episode on Sunday night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MoulinRouge 0 Posted October 30, 2004 9 out of 10. The best so far this season. FINALLY ENT is the prequel it was promised to be. Were the sets, clothes, and actors reminiscent of TOS? YES. THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE. That's why the episode worked because this is what ENT was supposed to be from the very beginning, a prequel to TOS. Spiner gave a surprisingly restraiend performance, not the scenery chewing I was expecting. Soong is a bad man, but not entirely evil. He is the grandfather of Data's creator. It makes sense. Soong the first trying to "surpass/improve humanity" with the augments....then his grandson using human like androids, technology unavailable to the Soong of Archer's time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sairnath 0 Posted October 30, 2004 I gave it a 9.5. Click For Spoiler I particularly liked Alec Newman as Malik. He was great in Frank Herberts: Dune as Paul Atreides and the Attitude and aura he has fits well with the character hes potrayed as. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theunicornhunter 2 Posted October 30, 2004 First, regarding the spoiler issue on reviews: IMO - we should just put **spoilers** in the topic heading rather than having to put each post in a spoiler. It seems you'd expect a review to talk about what the episode was about. Okay, if you want spoilers. Click For Spoiler I gave it a 9, the highest I've given this season. Spiner was great IMO and I think the subject is a timely one as we are in the beginning stages of genetic engineering. Although I have to rewatch this but didn't Phlox say something about the embryos being from 20th century Earth. (should have been 21st because we didn't have that technology in the 20th - still don't) Genetically modified humans quoting Nietsche was too "Andromeda" However, I am intrigued with the story because I think the question of improving humanity is an interesting one. And a point I've tried to make on other topics - physical improvements don't necessarily mean our basic nature will "evolve" and I use that term metaphorically. This is the kind of issue scifi should be addressing. It will be interesting to know how Soong reacts when he learns one of his "children" killed another. I thought the Captain was taken hostage too easily, after all they've been through he should have been more wary. I loved the scene where Archer and Soong stood there waiting for the Orion to fall over - this is reminiscent of one of the things that made TOS so great - humor even in dramatic circumstances. Okay, now what I didn't like. If T'Pol is accepting a commission from Star Fleet then she should be wearing a Star Fleet uniform - there is no reason for her not to. (well no logical reason - we know why they're keeping her in a catsuit) And it bugs me that Archer never knew about the drug addiction - and she gets this commission. It is obvious the issue is over as far as TPTB are concerned. But they found another opportunity to show T'Pol being manhandled Thanks Sairnaith - I was trying to remember where I had seen that actor Were those Orions for real or special effects - I need to rewatch it was the middle of the night when I saw it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LoveMalePecs1 0 Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) I Gave "Borderland" a 9.5-10 I think it is slowly being the Prequel Series it was meant to be even with the Orion Syndicate and Green Slave girl like from TOS and what made me drool was Alec Newman saw him from "Dune"Children OF Dune" Edited October 30, 2004 by LoveMalePecs1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho42 13 Posted October 30, 2004 Click For Spoiler Although I have to rewatch this but didn't Phlox say something about the embryos being from 20th century Earth. (should have been 21st because we didn't have that technology in the 20th - still don't) 276668[/snapback] Click For Spoiler You would have to keep in mind that the Eugenics Wars took place between the years of 1992 and 1996. And according to TOS, we did have that technology.Just as they have said Nomad was launched in 2002, and et cetera. :cool1: Frankly, it seems canon to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace 0 Posted October 30, 2004 I liked it. In all honesty, my faith in Enterprise has been waning as of late. When I wasn't able to see the last two episodes, I wasn't terribly upset. However, I'm watching last weeks episode right now, and will probably watch "Borderland" for the second time in a few minutes. My confidence isn't completely restored yet, but it's a good first step. Click For Spoiler I'm with MoulinRouge; "Borderland" reminded me alot of TOS. It was nostalgic without being campy. True, some of the guest actors could use a few more acting classes, and the huge Orion guy was a bit much, but overall it was fun. Brent did a decent job, and it was great to see him again. I'm looking forward to the rest of this arc.I also enjoyed seeing J.G. Hertzler (Martok) again. I give it an 8.5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Klingonmike 0 Posted October 30, 2004 Click For Spoiler I gave this episode a 10, a great episode all the way around. I loved seeing the Orion slave girl, haven't seen one since TOS. Brent Spiner did an excellent job playing Data's grandfather. I'm looking forward to the next installment of this story arc.Did anyone else notice the Klingon captain was J.G. Herztleg who played Martok on DS9? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cougar 0 Posted October 31, 2004 I liked it. In all honesty, my faith in Enterprise has been waning as of late. When I wasn't able to see the last two episodes, I wasn't terribly upset. However, I'm watching last weeks episode right now, and will probably watch "Borderland" for the second time in a few minutes. My confidence isn't completely restored yet, but it's a good first step. Click For Spoiler I'm with MoulinRouge; "Borderland" reminded me alot of TOS. It was nostalgic without being campy. True, some of the guest actors could use a few more acting classes, and the huge Orion guy was a bit much, but overall it was fun. Brent did a decent job, and it was great to see him again. I'm looking forward to the rest of this arc.I also enjoyed seeing J.G. Hertzler (Martok) again. I give it an 8.5. 276745[/snapback] That bid Orion guy was the Big Show. He's a wrestler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mj 7 Posted October 31, 2004 I liked it well eough. I am giving it an 8.0. Click For Spoiler Nothing in this episode stood out for me, except I liked the fact that I think Spiner did a good job in creating a character that is clearly not one of his descendant's androids. I agree with what has been said about the fact that physical improvements of human beings do not necessarily mean the fundamental nature has changed. For all their improvement, the Augments are no better than heartless thugs. Heartless. To me they are more animal-like than humans are....where is their art, their creativity? They are all about power and use of force. Can't Soong dream up anything more than a better fighting machine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
archerfan 0 Posted November 1, 2004 It was great to see Brent Spiner again. I was really impressed by his portrayal of Soong. I didn't find myself thinking about Data at all. Being a 3 parter, I will really have to wait to give a rating on the show overall. It's just not enough of the story for me. Click For Spoiler I liked the transporter room change, very TOS. I wasn't really enjoying the scenes with the Augments. I am hoping that will change in the next two episodes. I'm glad T'pol has joined starfleet but shouldn't she be wearing a uniform? That doesn't make any sense to me. I gave this episode a 9 because the 3 parter has promise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A l t e r E g o 9 Posted November 2, 2004 9 I'm taking 1 full point off for one thing that bugged me: Click For Spoiler I didn't like that the Male Orions were green skinned. My presumption has always been the women were dyed green to denote ownership so naturally I was a little upset the producers didn't see that my way. The Orions featured in an TAS were light-blue skinned so this change represents yet another reason to dismiss TAS as being non-canon. Otherwise it was a rocking good time as usual Click For Spoiler Hopefully this third launch of the ENT will be the lucky charm for this series successful run to 7 seasons. The entire episode felt like it only encompassed 20 min of actual air time and O' the possibilities for connections to be made between ENT and TOS has me tingling with anticipation, can't wait for more... Way to go Manny Coto! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Klingonmike 0 Posted November 3, 2004 (edited) Where did you hear that Orions were not green skinned? I've always thought of them as green skinned. The one I saw on TOS was green so I assumed all Orions are green. Edited November 3, 2004 by Klingonmike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A l t e r E g o 9 Posted November 3, 2004 Where did you hear that Orions were not green skinned? I've always thought of them as green skinned. The one I saw on TOS was green so I assumed all Orions are green. 277610[/snapback] You saw an Orion MALE on TOS? Which episode please? From TAS (look at the FACE not the uniform> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trinneergirl 0 Posted November 4, 2004 The first 0. I guess I'm the only one who feels that promoting T'DrugAbuse is filth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wishfire 2 Posted November 4, 2004 (edited) I gave it a nine because it has the potential for some very interresting bridging between ENT and the rest of Trek. Besides the obvious. Edited November 4, 2004 by wishfire Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted November 4, 2004 I didn't like that the Male Orions were green skinned. My presumption has always been the women were dyed green to denote ownership so naturally I was a little upset the producers didn't see that my way. The Orions featured in an TAS were light-blue skinned so this change represents yet another reason to dismiss TAS as being non-canon. 277382[/snapback] Borderland is the first episode of any Trek series that showed the Orion males. Maybe you are confused with an episode of TOS (Journey to Babel) that had an Orion male that had been surgically altered to look like an Andorian. BTW, TAS has never been considered canon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wishfire 2 Posted November 4, 2004 I didn't like that the Male Orions were green skinned. My presumption has always been the women were dyed green to denote ownership so naturally I was a little upset the producers didn't see that my way. The Orions featured in an TAS were light-blue skinned so this change represents yet another reason to dismiss TAS as being non-canon. 277382[/snapback] Borderland is the first episode of any Trek series that showed the Orion males. Maybe you are confused with an episode of TOS (Journey to Babel) that had an Orion male that had been surgically altered to look like an Andorian. BTW, TAS has never been considered canon. 277686[/snapback] Wel, lt_van_roy did have a good point on whether or not TAS is canon in another thread... Click For Spoiler It may not be considered canon, but by all the tests that determine what is canon and what isn't it should be. It involved the original actors and Roddenbery himself was directly involved. By that measure it is even MORE canon than DS9, VOY, ENT, Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis. Plus it has it's own section on startrek.com along with the other shows. If that doesn't establish it as canon I don't know what does. 277492[/snapback] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted November 4, 2004 I didn't like that the Male Orions were green skinned. My presumption has always been the women were dyed green to denote ownership so naturally I was a little upset the producers didn't see that my way. The Orions featured in an TAS were light-blue skinned so this change represents yet another reason to dismiss TAS as being non-canon. 277382[/snapback] Borderland is the first episode of any Trek series that showed the Orion males. Maybe you are confused with an episode of TOS (Journey to Babel) that had an Orion male that had been surgically altered to look like an Andorian. BTW, TAS has never been considered canon. 277686[/snapback] Wel, lt_van_roy did have a good point on whether or not TAS is canon in another thread... Click For Spoiler It may not be considered canon, but by all the tests that determine what is canon and what isn't it should be. It involved the original actors and Roddenbery himself was directly involved. By that measure it is even MORE canon than DS9, VOY, ENT, Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis. Plus it has it's own section on startrek.com along with the other shows. If that doesn't establish it as canon I don't know what does. 277492[/snapback] 277688[/snapback] The PTB (including Gene Roddenberry) have never considered it canon so that good enough for me. This is from the FAQ at st.com: How do the Star Trek novels and comic books fit into the Star Trek universe? What is considered Star Trek "canon"? As a rule of thumb, the events that take place within the live action episodes and movies are canon, or official Star Trek facts. Story lines, characters, events, stardates, etc. that take place within the fictional novels, the Animated Adventures, and the various comic lines are not canon. There are only a couple of exceptions to this rule: the Jeri Taylor penned novels "Mosaic" and "Pathways." Many of the events in these two novels feature background details of the main Star Trek: Voyager characters. (Note: There are a few details from an episode of the Animated Adventures that have entered into the Star Trek canon. The episode "Yesteryear," written by D.C. Fontana, features some biographical background on Spock.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites