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The weakest series?

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Voyager has often been hailed as the weakest of the series, not withstanding Enterprise which has yet to be given it's chance. Does anyone feel that it deserves this title or that it was better than TNG or TOS etc? I know that the special effects are better than what came before, but then that is more due to the time that it was made rather than any other factors. Some of the plots were rather contrived I have to admit, and characters weak and repetitive. The lumbering Neelix who only got interesting when he had to leave, the wooden Neelix, the uneven Janeway, the diluted Torres and Hairy Chin who was just a bland ensign. The storylines abounded with time travel, the Borg (who turned into soap opera weekly villans) and the use of mysterious possessions and clouds all re-iterated many of the plot devices that made TNG what it was.

However, on the plus side, we had some brilliant episodes that were inspired. Year of Hell, Workforce, Blink of an Eye, were all brilliant in their own right, and could compare to TNG's Inner Light and Best of Both Worlds. I only wish that there had been more dramatic lines used towards the end and the writers had've used the end of the series to really shock the viewers and provide us with some 'on the endge of our seat' viewing that wasnt so safe, comfortable and 'same old, same old'.

Voyager for me: a comfy pair of zip up furry slippers in front of the fire. Hopefully Enterprise will be a pair a red stillettos with metal tips!

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I agree that Voyager had some good points, however I did have problems with Voyager. There were too many episodes that were set entirely on the ship. The enemy was often the only focus of an episode and if that enemy appears only on the view screen, the episode is flat.

 

I think that the directors were trying to make it like DS9, in that it dealt with characters. However you could have excellent characters but still have a crappy show if the characters aren't doing anything special. There were many episodes in DS9 where the characters were pushed. The episode where Sisko brought the Romulans into the war tested just how far he was willing to go. Worf dealt with the aftermath of blowing up a "civilian" ship. Jadzia Dax dealt with living with a killer in her belly. Voyager has none of these excellent plots.

 

Great characters builds from great plots and great plots focus around great characters. Voyager did not start up with great characters, just good ones, and so had time going places. Furthermore, the directors/producers weren't able to build these characters into attention worthy characters.

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I don't agree. Voyager was well written.Yes there were some silly momets but an overall great series.

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Voyager has had its up and downs. Voyager is my favourite series(well i really don't like to pick favourites) and is not the weakest series.

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You know, I really think that fans series likes and dislikes, depend on their various reasons for watching Star Trek. Personally Voyager is my all time favorite, with TOS and TNG following in that order. After the original series, TOS was taken off the air, initially I could not get into TNG. I tried but to be honest I could not get into any of the characters. For years, I would not watch any Star Trek other than the TOS re runs. It was only when Voyager came on the air that I had a desire to see how the writers were handling a woman being captain of a Star Trek ship.............I truly loved the adventures of Voyager.......Sure there were some episodes that were poor, but there are weak episodes in all of the series. Overall I truly enjoyed the story lines and Voyager characters..........It was only after I got into Voyager that I could go back and try to get into theTNG re runs, which by the way, Now, I do enjoy. Deep Space 9, is not for me, no matter what, nor is Enterprise..........But I began this saying I do believe we are fans for different reasons, and this is why there are preferences[/size][/color]

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Voyager is one of my favorite series. My favorite series is TNG but Voyager is second when you take out the TOS series. I don't usually added TOS to the list of my favorites because it's a given that it is the first and usually the best. So my favorites in order, without TOS being added is

 

TNG

VOY

DS9

ENT

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I personally don't think that there is a "weakest" Trek series. I could never pick any one over another.

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in point of fact, the 'weakest' series was TOS - it only lasted three years, and its legacy, and the truth of Trek's message, only became apparent after the series went off the air...

 

thank goodness for hindsight...

 

as for VOY, i think it blended the best of everything Trek has come to mean - forward thinking, equitable, and engaging, i think the crown in the jewel of Trek series will forever be...

 

now, speaking of weakest captain - oh, yes, ENT is another topic... ;)

Edited by joeybear

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I personally don't think that there is a "weakest" Trek series. I could never pick any one over another.

276971[/snapback]

 

I concur. Every series has its strong points and its weak points.

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For me nothing beats TOS, that show is Star Trek and will always be better. TNG did a fine job in following TOS and is a fantastic show in its own right, in many ways they are very different.

 

Of the newer Star Trek shows I have been less enthusiastic. I have seen the majority, if not all the episodes from these shows but have not really found either DS9 or VOY to be favourites. DS9 really began to apply more personal and solely character driven plots that many times seemed to forget that the show was set in space within the sci-fi genre, I know many like this aspect but for me personally it began to act more like a soap than a sci-fi show.

 

When Voyager came around I was really looking forward to getting back into space with a new crew. At the beginning I enjoyed the stories but after a while it was clear that the potential of the "lost in space" plot was not being explored to its full potential, and later we got lots of action but no thought, two aspects that TOS and TNG balanced out well. Anyway I would still say that I enjoyed this show more than DS9.

 

Now we come to Enterprise. This really is a return to form, once again (since the end of TNG) I am looking forward to the next episode which must not be missed. This show is much more like the original series and ironically I think it is this factor that many of the more modern Trekkies, who came to the franchise since DS9, seem to dislike to some degree. Personally I love this show and at the moment it sits just behind TNG in the pecking order but it is getting better all the time and the acting is certainly a step up from previous series.

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I watched Voyager religiously when it was on the air initially ... all seven seasons. I have not watched one single episode of Voyager since the end of its initial run.

 

I bought DS9 season DVDs as soon as each became available.

 

We bought TNG DVDs once we'd completed our DS9 collection.

 

I probably won't buy Voyager DVDs.

 

We've only been able to sit through one episode of Enterprise.

 

We own every episode and movie featuring the original cast. Kirk/Spock/McCoy -- best Trek characters of all time. Nothing beats TOS for us.

 

I'm a little tired of hearing how people who don't like Enterprise are people who didn't like TOS ... that is completely wrong. We don't like Enterprise because of its uninteresting premise (IMO) and quite frankly, it is just a bad sci-fi show. The sets look like those weird outerspace sets from 1950's sci-fi movies. It's painful for me to even watch. And don't get me started on T'Pol.

 

The only reason I would even consider giving Enterprise another chance is because of Jeffrey Combs.

 

Now ... Voyager was not the weakest of the series. Different folks feel differently about each. ENT is the weakest IMO, but I do understand that others would not agree.

 

I do not appreciate being lumped into the anti-TOS, johnny-come-lately Trek fan category just because I don't like ENT and did like DS9.

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I don't think any of the Star Trek show are weak. They're all "Wagon Train to the stars", and all have their strong points as well as weak points.

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I'm a little tired of hearing how people who don't like Enterprise are people who didn't like TOS ... that is completely wrong...I do not appreciate being lumped into the anti-TOS, johnny-come-lately Trek fan category just because I don't like ENT and did like DS9.

 

You may very well not fit into this catorgory and your opinion is no more nor less important if you did, however from the majority of people I have spoken to this issue does seem to be a factor. It may not be the only factor and it may not apply to everyone, but I still seems to be a factor. Trek is so big now and has stretched over so many decades that the fanbase is diverse and many are brought up on different styles of Star Trek.

 

We've only been able to sit through one episode of Enterprise

 

I absolutely urge you to have a look at a few more episodes of Enterprise as you might be surprised. I'm not a great fan of DS9 or Voyager but I gave them a few seasons before coming to my decision (in fact I must have seen the majority of the episodes now on reruns).

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I don't agree. Voyager was well written.Yes there were some silly momets but an overall great series.

276157[/snapback]

I agree 100% Voyager was a very strong series...My favorite series so far...DS9 was much weaker....basically "General Hospital" in space...ever notice as the series progressed we saw less and less of the station and all the action took place ....else where. I've been very critical of Enterprise 1st 3 seasons...for good reason the writing really suxs...B&B tried to rewrite Star Trek Canon...excluding the origional series..which was very nauty...nauty..but this 4th season is looking real good.

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Weakest Series!

----------------------

1.ENT

2.TOS

3.TNG

4.Voyager

5.DS9 weakest series

 

but as others have said they all have there Strong and Weak points in each of the Series However I like the Trek Timeline since TOS into the films and these series since ENT is suppose to be the prequel to TOS even though it's the 5th in the t.v series line.

 

 

:lol: B) :lol: :o

Edited by LoveMalePecs1

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I think people really liked Voyager, because we got really comfortable with the characters, although sometimes annoying ahem...Neelix. We learned to love them. They were the only series that the crew ended up being very much like a family, because they were all stranded together. You didnt really get the sense of family with the other crews. With the exception of ENT, who I think actually has better characters, and it has alot of potential. Which is why I dont want it to get cancelled! anyway I dunno which series is the weakest, depends on what people like, because theyre all so different.

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I'm not sure whether it would be fair to pick out one series as the best or worst. I grew up with Star Trek Voyager, I watched it from the beginning - I was eleven back then - and it belongs to my childhood and early teenager years. I cannot really say whether it is a weak show or not - I just loved it. And I still do. So I don't think that I can decide whether it was week or not.

 

I've also seen TNG, TOS and DS9, but they never gave me the feeling of being emotionally involved in the series as Voyager did.

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Enterprise was weak cause you know the ending, I mean the Federation will be form earth wont get destroyed and so on, thats how it was weak IMO I would of rather seen the Titan

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In terms of network support it'd be a toss up between TOS and Enterprise.

If I remember my television history,I don't think TOS ever had much support from its network.They tried to cancel it the second season,I think....then there was the historic Save star Trek fan campaign,and that led to the third and final season.I'm not sure UPN was ever really too supportive of Enterprise,either.I can remember grumblings about axing Enterprise the same year it debuted.

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My favorite series were VOY and TNG. I also liked DS9 and feel it was a strong series.

 

Now as for the weakest...

 

I did enjoy ENT, to an extent. TOS had its moments, but it probably ranks as my least favorite. However, I definitely think ENT was the weakest of the five series.

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Right now I have to say Voyager because I haven't seen enough of it.

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Enterprise was for me the weakest Trek, both in regards to the quality of the show itself and the way it dealt with the ideals and expectations of Star Trek. Though I do think it's a good series with many virtues, so perhaps 'least strong' is a better term, even if it's rather torturous english.

 

I can totally emphasise with what Medusa is saying, it's exactly the same for me and DS9. Voyager comes a close second, and was a very strong series with very few weak points.

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i don't think voyager was the weakest series. i do admit that it had it's weakness like every other tv show ever made including star trek. each series had it's strong points and it's weakness which people can agree or disagree on forever. so does it matter which series be it voyager or one of the others that is the weakest as long as we as fans watch all or a few of the series as long as we enjoy ourselves.

 

tm :blink:

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I agree your favorites depend on why you like Star Trek. I didn't like TOS or DS9, and I'm not afraid to admit it. I know Kirk and his crew are the "Original", but I couldn't get into the 1960s TV show. Twilight Zone was cool, but Star Trek was cheesy. I only liked Spock... McCoy and Scotty were cool in small doses. And I couldn't get into Deep Space Nine or Enterprise. I grew up on TNG, and most Trek fans I talk to agree it's a fair balance of old and new... the ship is futuristic but not as obscenely so as Voyager, but yet it's not cheesy like the one in TOS. I really think that with Voyager, they tried to take all the elements that made TNG and DS9 work and make something new.

 

To address some of the "accusations" against Voyager...

 

1. TOS/TNG/DS9/ENT is better.

This is a matter of opinion, as extensively covered above.

 

2. All the episodes take place on the ship.

All the DS9 episodes take place on DS9. The station is in every single episode, is it not? Plus, the station doesn't move. It can, sub-impulse... I saw it move in one episode. But it doesn't go anywhere. Furthermore, every TNG episode had the Enterprise-D in it. And so on. So TNG and DS9 may have had more planetary episodes, but you have to consider that the whole point of Voyager is to get home... They don't have time to stop on every planet. That said, there are enough places they DO stop. Which leads me to...

 

3. They stop at every anomaly they see.

Guilty as charged... Especially in the first few seasons. This is one of the things that I hold against the series... but it wouldn't be Star Trek if they skipped every possible encounter. Star Trek (at least Voyager) is an "adventure"... It's "illogical", as the Vulcans would put it, for Voyager to stop and stargaze when they have a journey few of them will survive. You'd think they'd want to take every shortcut they could get. Even after the 2 10-year boosts they've gotten so far (Having just watched 5x14), that's still a long time.

 

4. The characters are weak.

I found the characters more in-depth than the TNG crew, though I haven't watched TNG chronologically - YET. And I can't compare it to DS9, because I couldn't get into it. I really need to give DS9 another chance... maybe if I watch the first few episodes, I'll get into it.

 

5. "and later we got lots of action with no thought" [TransporterMalfunction]

I'm currently watching Season 5 (5x14) and I'm not sure what you mean. Just a few episodes back in "Latent Image" we had a vey thought-provoking plot. Whether it's in someone's best interests to delete their memory to save their sanity, and whether the Doctor is a person or just another machine. The latter point reminded me of TNG and Data going through the same things. I think there's plenty of thought...

 

6. Bad Acting

I disagree, but I suppose this is a matter of opinion and depends on your knowledge of acting. I don't fault bad acting unless it's obscenely bad, and I've never had a problem with Voyager; I find all of the characters pretty convincing.

 

7. *.Neelix.*

Neelix was much less annoying than Quark... Personally I can't stand the Ferengi, and so far they're only in 1 episode of Voyager. From my experience, they haven't created a more annoying race than the Ferengi, so Neelix isn't bad. He has a good place and plays it well... First as the "Delta Quadrant expert", and then when they move beyond the Necrid (sp?) expanse, he fits right in as cook and continues with the morale officer thing. He's sort of a jack of all trades, knows something about just about everything. Plus in Season 5, I'm starting to see more of myself in Neelix as we see him with Naomi on the holodeck and tucking her in... I've always been good with kids, and have taken care of my cousins when their parents were busy on a few occasions, so I'm cool with Neelix now.

 

 

I can't remember... are there any other "main" issues with Voyager? I've seen them all up to 5x04 plus Endgame (7x26, the last one) and maybe a couple in between I may have seen on TV, but everything in 5 has been new, so I think I stopped watching it entirely. Watching it this way, as opposed to one episode a week for 7 years and missing some, maybe I'm a little biased. But I plan to do the same thing with TNG and maybe DS9, and at that point I'll have a better idea. Until then, Voyager is my favorite...

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That is sure to cause some glowers in DS9 fans. :eekout:

 

 

I think all the series have weak areas except for DS9, I cannot think of a single thing DS9 could have improved on; it started strong then went uphill from there. It not going anywhere makes it unique; no other series can say that, in the process of not going anywhere it actually made history and expanded the Trek universe immensely. We had often heard of Deep Space Stations existing, but they had never been so fully fleshed out before. Yes please give it another chance without the preconceptions present, you may be surprised.

 

TOS had fewest seasons and was first to be cancelled so that makes it weak in comparison. TOS will probably grow less and less "strong" as us Old Timers pass on, modern audiences just do not get it.

 

As was said TNG did not have the greatest character development, until the movies; there it improved much but the series is now being weakened imo by bloated self absorbed actors (some not all) for whom it is just a job. Same thing happened with at least one of the higher ranking actors of TOS, their ego spoiled the magic

 

VOY was weak on goals met, yes they got home but it was all so sudden and abrupt. LOTS of good episodes though and a loyal fanbase.

 

ENT is also weak for being cancelled but its weakness is one season stronger than TOS. I do not agree with most peoples complaints about this one, I appreciated its differences.

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For me I don't think it's week at all but since we didn't get UPN here I never say Voyager but now there on DVD I can get to see them but I WISH Paramont would not charge there DVD so much money alot of others charge only $40 to $50 but no not them they have to charge $100 a pop man that's alot of money for me but I will buy them, look around for a bargan shope around until I get them all. All I have to say it I LOVE STAR TREK :eekout:

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Voyager has often been hailed as the weakest of the series, not withstanding Enterprise which has yet to be given it's chance. Does anyone feel that it deserves this title or that it was better than TNG or TOS etc? I know that the special effects  are better than what came before, but then that is more due to the time that it was made rather than any other factors. Some of the plots were rather contrived I have to admit, and characters weak and repetitive. The lumbering Neelix who only got interesting when he had to leave, the wooden Neelix, the uneven Janeway, the diluted Torres and Hairy Chin who was just a bland ensign. The storylines abounded with time travel, the Borg (who turned into soap opera weekly villans) and the use of mysterious possessions and clouds all re-iterated many of the plot devices that made TNG what it was.

 

I think that Voyager was a long series of missed opportunities. You cannot convince me that Janeway and Chakotay would never have gotten together after 7 years in deep space with little or no chance of getting home. I found Neelix to be the Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek and often wished the Borg would assimilate him once and for all and be done with it. I think it really shows the weakness of the writing when one considers that the most interesting characters on the show were not even human (The Doctor and Seven). By the time Voyager got to Season 5 is wasn't even "Voyager" anymore. It was The Seven of Nine Show featuring Voyager.

 

In many ways the show reminded me of Space:1999 in terms of its overall premise...and while there can be no comparing the F/X of the two shows, at least Season 1 of S1999 had some daring and some risk-taking.

 

I also was bugged by "Species 8472" which was a blatant rip-off of The Shadows from Babylon-5.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I essentially enjoyed the show, it was good -what's such a let down is that it could have been great if they'd just let the writers do their job without Rick Berman messing with them.

Edited by Jack_Bauer

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Ent was weakest (haha! I can now say was! because it is cancelled! haha!)

 

VOY was the absolute no doubt best.

 

 

If you think otherwise I'll kill you.

It's not even a joke, I'll hunt you down in between the yu-gi-oh cards and the pokemon video games and rip your heart out for differing from my opinion.

 

Conform or die.

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