"Fury"

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Greetings!

 

So, who liked the episode "Fury"? I have a question to start us off.

Click for Spoiler:

How come Kes seemed old in this episode? "Before and After" established that she wouldn't start getting old till she turned 8. In "Fury", Kes was only 6.

 

Anyone got any ideas as to why she seemed to age prematurely?

Edited May 19, 2003 by Alterego

[gdog243 0]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this episode was AN INSULT TO ANYONE WHO IS A STAR TREK FAN. What the heck were they thinking bringing back a good character like Kes and have her turn evil forgetting what happened to her. She left with innocence, a gift to flang voyager across borg space, and when she comes back, she is not the same character. I really started Likeing kes in "Before and After," but this episode was an insult to the actress, the fans, and should have been for the writers as well. Like I said, what the frell were they thinking.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this episode was AN INSULT TO ANYONE WHO IS A STAR TREK FAN.  What the heck were they thinking bringing back a good character like Kes and have her turn evil forgetting what happened to her.  She left with innocence, a gift to flang voyager across borg space, and when she comes back, she is not the same character.  I really started Likeing kes in "Before and After," but this episode was an insult to the actress, the fans, and should have been for the writers as well.  Like I said, what the frell were they thinking.

They were thinking of making her a recurring villian, similar to DS9's Dukat. Given what they "could" have done, I'd rather have "Fury". At least she remembered who she was in the end.

 

Here's a question: After she evolved and such, what did she find that sent her into such chaos?

[gdog243 0]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this episode was AN INSULT TO ANYONE WHO IS A STAR TREK FAN.  What the heck were they thinking bringing back a good character like Kes and have her turn evil forgetting what happened to her.  She left with innocence, a gift to flang voyager across borg space, and when she comes back, she is not the same character.  I really started Likeing kes in "Before and After," but this episode was an insult to the actress, the fans, and should have been for the writers as well.  Like I said, what the frell were they thinking.

They were thinking of making her a recurring villian, similar to DS9's Dukat. Given what they "could" have done, I'd rather have "Fury". At least she remembered who she was in the end.

 

Here's a question: After she evolved and such, what did she find that sent her into such chaos?

But she wasn't a villain, and making Dukat into a one deminsional villan was wrong too. Kes was an innocent young girl who had a great send off only to be ruined by this episode.

 

As for her caotic nature, she was blaming janeway for abandoning her. (Which is not true) She really wanted to get home, so she took out her "So-called" problems on janeway.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this episode was AN INSULT TO ANYONE WHO IS A STAR TREK FAN.  What the heck were they thinking bringing back a good character like Kes and have her turn evil forgetting what happened to her.  She left with innocence, a gift to flang voyager across borg space, and when she comes back, she is not the same character.  I really started Likeing kes in "Before and After," but this episode was an insult to the actress, the fans, and should have been for the writers as well.  Like I said, what the frell were they thinking.

They were thinking of making her a recurring villian, similar to DS9's Dukat. Given what they "could" have done, I'd rather have "Fury". At least she remembered who she was in the end.

 

Here's a question: After she evolved and such, what did she find that sent her into such chaos?

But she wasn't a villain, and making Dukat into a one deminsional villan was wrong too. Kes was an innocent young girl who had a great send off only to be ruined by this episode.

 

As for her caotic nature, she was blaming janeway for abandoning her. (Which is not true) She really wanted to get home, so she took out her "So-called" problems on janeway.

I agree, but she said that after she left, what she found, she couldn't control. She never explained what exactly happened. I figured that what she found did severe pyschological damage, thus taking a message of herself from the past to bring her into focus.

[DaSisko 0]

I didn't particularly enjoy this episode (not being a big Kes fan), but it did seem right to bring her back as an evil person. Just didn't seem to fit her character.

[dsbs 0]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this episode was AN INSULT TO ANYONE WHO IS A STAR TREK FAN.  What the heck were they thinking bringing back a good character like Kes and have her turn evil forgetting what happened to her.  She left with innocence, a gift to flang voyager across borg space, and when she comes back, she is not the same character.  I really started Likeing kes in "Before and After," but this episode was an insult to the actress, the fans, and should have been for the writers as well.  Like I said, what the frell were they thinking.

I know! I really liked Kes, and although I thought the acting was good in the episode, I really didnt' like it. We all know Kes would never forget! And EVEN if she did, she would be too NICE to do what she did.

[mrskirk 0]

I didn't like "Fury" either. Kes was an innocent, childlike character who was loving, gentle and wouldn't hurt a fly. As a matter of fact, if she found a wounded fly she would try to comfort it and nurse it back to health!! Then, in "Fury," she is an evil, bitter character who kills B'Elanna Torres! No way!!

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Interresting thoughts everyone. However, keep something in mind: 1 year for Kes is 10 years for us. So, in the 3 years she was gone, that would be like 30 years for us.

 

So, who's to say she couldn't have changed that dramatically in 3 years?

 

Granted, I hated she was all evil till the end, but, I was glad to see her again, and glad that they made her "Good Kes" in the end.

[dsbs 0]

I didn't like "Fury" either.  Kes was an innocent, childlike character who was loving, gentle and wouldn't hurt a fly.  As a matter of fact, if she found a wounded fly she would try to comfort it and nurse it back to health!!

LOL! I do indeed concur whole-heartedly!

[KayTroi 0]

HI, maybe Kes aged quicker because she was in the ascended peoples enviroment too long and it did something to her body on a molecular level. As I said before, I am unsure but this is my take on the matter. If anyone else knows differently, please let me know soon.

 

Thanks,

:P

[prometheus 0]

Greetings!

 

So, who liked the episode "Fury"?  I have a question to start us off.

Click for Spoiler:

How come Kes seemed old in this episode?  "Before and After" established that she wouldn't start getting old till she turned 8.  In "Fury", Kes was only 6.

 

Anyone got any ideas as to why she seemed to age prematurely?

Please use the spoiler button. Really. I mean that has ruined that episode for me.

Edited May 19, 2003 by Alterego

[Gotabite 0]

Greetings!

 

So, who liked the episode "Fury"?  I have a question to start us off.  

Click for Spoiler:

How come Kes seemed old in this episode?  "Before and After" established that she wouldn't start getting old till she turned 8.  In "Fury", Kes was only 6.

 

Anyone got any ideas as to why she seemed to age prematurely?

Please use the spoiler button. Really. I mean that has ruined that episode for me.

Your point about Kes looking so old, was one of the first things to turn me off when the episode aired for the first time. I kept asking myself, "Why does she look so old already?" This I could never figure out......nor do I recall it ever being explained. The fact that they aged her with no explaination, plus made her into a villian........none of it made much sense to me. None of my Star Trek friends enjoyed this episode either.

[Sam The Smuggler 1]

I missed this episode.

[joeybear 0]

I know this is a little late, but I thought 'Fury' was one of the dumbest episodes ever, have said so before, and think it had more to do with a guilty paycheque from paramount to lien...

[MaQuIs_PrInCeSs 0]

I didn't like this episode at all. Kes killed B'Elanna and made Tom all sad. :) How could Kes suddenly turn so evil?

[Admiral Kirk 1]

There was no real point to fury IMO. As for Kes leaving... I hope the doorknob hit's her on the way out.

[Gotabite 0]

<span style='font-family:Optima'><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I know this is a little late, but I thought 'Fury' was one of the dumbest episodes ever, have said so before, and think it had more to do with a guilty paycheque from paramount to lien...</span></span>

Ditto!!! It was quite dumb.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I didn't like this episode at all. Kes killed B'Elanna and made Tom all sad. How could Kes suddenly turn so evil?

It wasn't sudden, she was gone 3 years, which for us, would be like 30.

[Gotabite 0]

I didn't like this episode at all. Kes killed B'Elanna and made Tom all sad. How could Kes suddenly turn so evil?

It wasn't sudden, she was gone 3 years, which for us, would be like 30.

But Captain, when Kes left 3 years earlier her frame of mind was "pro" Vpyager. In fact she push the ship ten light years closer to home as her departing "Gift" to the Voyager crew. So for her to return 3 years later with a "bad attitude" is a bit much to understand don't you think?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I didn't like this episode at all. Kes killed B'Elanna and made Tom all sad. How could Kes suddenly turn so evil?

It wasn't sudden, she was gone 3 years, which for us, would be like 30.

But Captain, when Kes left 3 years earlier her frame of mind was "pro" Vpyager. In fact she push the ship ten light years closer to home as her departing "Gift" to the Voyager crew. So for her to return 3 years later with a "bad attitude" is a bit much to understand don't you think?

Perhaps, but remember what she told Janeway? She said, "What I found, I wasn't ready for." Whatever that was, it obviously caused great psychological harm to Kes, and might explain her premature aging.

[Gotabite 0]

I didn't like this episode at all. Kes killed B'Elanna and made Tom all sad. How could Kes suddenly turn so evil?

It wasn't sudden, she was gone 3 years, which for us, would be like 30.

But Captain, when Kes left 3 years earlier her frame of mind was "pro" Vpyager. In fact she push the ship ten light years closer to home as her departing "Gift" to the Voyager crew. So for her to return 3 years later with a "bad attitude" is a bit much to understand don't you think?

Perhaps, but remember what she told Janeway? She said, "What I found, I wasn't ready for." Whatever that was, it obviously caused great psychological harm to Kes, and might explain her premature aging.

I see your point Captain, and a point well taken.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I didn't like this episode at all. Kes killed B'Elanna and made Tom all sad. How could Kes suddenly turn so evil?

It wasn't sudden, she was gone 3 years, which for us, would be like 30.

But Captain, when Kes left 3 years earlier her frame of mind was "pro" Vpyager. In fact she push the ship ten light years closer to home as her departing "Gift" to the Voyager crew. So for her to return 3 years later with a "bad attitude" is a bit much to understand don't you think?

Perhaps, but remember what she told Janeway? She said, "What I found, I wasn't ready for." Whatever that was, it obviously caused great psychological harm to Kes, and might explain her premature aging.

I see your point Captain, and a point well taken.

Thanks. When she said that near the end, while attacking Janeway of the past, I assumed it "had" to be why she went nuts and aged prematurely.

[Gotabite 0]

I didn't like this episode at all. Kes killed B'Elanna and made Tom all sad. How could Kes suddenly turn so evil?

It wasn't sudden, she was gone 3 years, which for us, would be like 30.

But Captain, when Kes left 3 years earlier her frame of mind was "pro" Vpyager. In fact she push the ship ten light years closer to home as her departing "Gift" to the Voyager crew. So for her to return 3 years later with a "bad attitude" is a bit much to understand don't you think?

Perhaps, but remember what she told Janeway? She said, "What I found, I wasn't ready for." Whatever that was, it obviously caused great psychological harm to Kes, and might explain her premature aging.

I see your point Captain, and a point well taken.

Thanks. When she said that near the end, while attacking Janeway of the past, I assumed it "had" to be why she went nuts and aged prematurely.

Overall though Captain, what did you realy think of this episode. did it really make sense, seem logical that Kes would return and behave in this way? In my mind I thought with all the controversey from fans about Kes leaving, this was the writer's way of bringing her back one last time and not bringing her back again. What do you think?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I didn't like this episode at all. Kes killed B'Elanna and made Tom all sad. How could Kes suddenly turn so evil?

It wasn't sudden, she was gone 3 years, which for us, would be like 30.

But Captain, when Kes left 3 years earlier her frame of mind was "pro" Vpyager. In fact she push the ship ten light years closer to home as her departing "Gift" to the Voyager crew. So for her to return 3 years later with a "bad attitude" is a bit much to understand don't you think?

Perhaps, but remember what she told Janeway? She said, "What I found, I wasn't ready for." Whatever that was, it obviously caused great psychological harm to Kes, and might explain her premature aging.

I see your point Captain, and a point well taken. :)

Thanks. When she said that near the end, while attacking Janeway of the past, I assumed it "had" to be why she went nuts and aged prematurely.

Overall though Captain, what did you realy think of this episode. did it really make sense, seem logical that Kes would return and behave in this way? In my mind I thought with all the controversey from fans about Kes leaving, this was the writer's way of bringing her back one last time and not bringing her back again. What do you think?

Well, I had read that they wanted to make Kes a recurring villian, much like Dukat. You can imagine my reliefe at the end of this episode!

 

Aside from Chakotay's hair looking like it does in the present and B'Elanna not having a temper like she did at the start, I thought this episode was executed excellently. With my "not wanting Kes to be a villian" put aside, I think her character was delt with quite effectively. My only complaint was that this wasn't a 2-parter so the story could be expanded on and so we could find out what exactly made her go psycho on the crew.

[Gotabite 0]

I didn't like this episode at all. Kes killed B'Elanna and made Tom all sad. :huh: How could Kes suddenly turn so evil?

It wasn't sudden, she was gone 3 years, which for us, would be like 30.

But Captain, when Kes left 3 years earlier her frame of mind was "pro" Vpyager. In fact she push the ship ten light years closer to home as her departing "Gift" to the Voyager crew. So for her to return 3 years later with a "bad attitude" is a bit much to understand don't you think?

Perhaps, but remember what she told Janeway? She said, "What I found, I wasn't ready for." Whatever that was, it obviously caused great psychological harm to Kes, and might explain her premature aging.

I see your point Captain, and a point well taken. :)

Thanks. When she said that near the end, while attacking Janeway of the past, I assumed it "had" to be why she went nuts and aged prematurely.

Overall though Captain, what did you realy think of this episode. did it really make sense, seem logical that Kes would return and behave in this way? In my mind I thought with all the controversey from fans about Kes leaving, this was the writer's way of bringing her back one last time and not bringing her back again. What do you think?

Well, I had read that they wanted to make Kes a recurring villian, much like Dukat. You can imagine my reliefe at the end of this episode! :lol:

 

Aside from Chakotay's hair looking like it does in the present and B'Elanna not having a temper like she did at the start, I thought this episode was executed excellently. With my "not wanting Kes to be a villian" put aside, I think her character was delt with quite effectively. My only complaint was that this wasn't a 2-parter so the story could be expanded on and so we could find out what exactly made her go psycho on the crew.

B) Yes, maybe a two part episode would have set better with many of us who couldn't understand her Psycho behavior. By the way, I think you post some really good topics for discussion. They all make you dig pretty deep cognitively. :)

[mrskirk 0]

Whatever that was, it obviously caused great psychological harm to Kes, and might explain her premature aging.

I don't think her aging was at all premature. Don't forget, Kes was Ocampan, and they only lived for 9 years. I believe she was about 3 years old when she left Voyager, and "Fury" took place 3 years after her departure. That would have made Kes 6 years old-2/3 of her lifetime was over. So, the "aging" wasn't premature at all.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Whatever that was, it obviously caused great psychological harm to Kes, and might explain her premature aging.

I don't think her aging was at all premature. Don't forget, Kes was Ocampan, and they only lived for 9 years. I believe she was about 3 years old when she left Voyager, and "Fury" took place 3 years after her departure. That would have made Kes 6 years old-2/3 of her lifetime was over. So, the "aging" wasn't premature at all.

Her aging was premature, becuase in "Before and After", we learned that her species doesn't get "old" till their final 6 or so months of life. She shouldn't have started looking old, till she turned 8 or 9.

[Lollypop 0]

I don't think it was Kes that had aged prematurely, it was the actress Jennifier Lien. I read somewhere that when Star Trek got rid of her she was so cut up about the whole thing that it made her ill.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I don't think it was Kes that had aged prematurely, it was the actress Jennifier Lien. I read somewhere that when Star Trek got rid of her she was so cut up about the whole thing that it made her ill.

It was makeup, remember how she made herself look young in the past? The actress didn't really look like that.