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Cougar

Man Captain

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Well, Hang, I guess it's the example of Captain Ransom as an example of what a man would do that threw us. He was willing to kill alien lifeforms in order to get his crew home and in the end actually rethought his decision.

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Well, Hang, I guess it's the example of Captain Ransom as an example of what a man would do that threw us.  He was willing to kill alien lifeforms in order to get his crew home and in the end actually rethought his decision.

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I understand but i just wanted to use him as a example that not all starfleet captains go by the book or follow the prime directive.

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I believe, that Voyager would still have been interesting with a male captain. However, the series probably wouldn't have gone in the same direction as with Janeway. Of course, that may have been a good thing.

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Better is a relative term I guess, your post suggests that rather than indicating a person of principle "better" indicates a person who puts personal needs above the larger picture.

 

The only picture I would be concerned over is getting my crew home. If Janeway was concerned about upsetting the balance of power in the Delta Quadrant by their presence in that part of the galaxy, then getting Voyager home as quickly as possible would have been the preferable situation. Rather than staying for seven years where presumably more interference would occur.

 

:rolleyes:

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Better is a relative term I guess, your post suggests that rather than indicating a person of principle "better" indicates a person who puts personal needs above the larger picture.

 

The only picture I would be concerned over is getting my crew home. If Janeway was concerned about upsetting the balance of power in the Delta Quadrant by their presence in that part of the galaxy, then getting Voyager home as quickly as possible would have been the preferable situation. Rather than staying for seven years where presumably more interference would occur.

 

:rolleyes:

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I think she was more concerned about not letting thousands of people die so 150 people get could home. (Did you get to see Caretaker?) And with Ransom the issue was with killing alien lifeforms to use their dead bodies as fuel.

 

I really don't think that most Star Fleet officers would have made that choice. Many other episodes of other series indicated just the opposite - Star Fleet officers - male or female - would sacrifice their lives (much less their convenience) to save the lives of a whole planet.

Edited by TheUnicornHunter

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I think she was more concerned about not letting thousands of people die so 150 people get could home. (Did you get to see Caretaker?)

 

Who was Janeway to decide that? Don't you think that by intervening and destroying Caretaker's array that she was interfering in the affairs of cultures that she had only a passing knowledge of? And yes, I saw Caretaker. Who says the Ocampa would have died? She didn't know that. They had years of power storage from the Caretaker and like I said earlier, Kes developed powerful mental abilities in only a few years. It's possible that all Ocampa would have become powerful enough to protect themselves. They didn't need Janeway's help.

 

And with Ransom the issue was with killing alien lifeforms to use their dead bodies as fuel.

 

But consider his position. A relatively weak ship with small resources and supplies. He did what he had to do.

 

I really don't think that most Star Fleet officers would have made that choice. Many other episodes of other series indicated just the opposite - Star Fleet officers - male or female - would sacrifice their lives (much less their convenience) to save the lives of a whole planet.

 

But how many of those officers other than the Voyager crew were 75,000 light years away from the Federation.

 

In a desperate state, you may have to do what is needed to survive.

 

The situation of the Kazon, the Ocampa and the Caretaker was not Janeway's concern. She should have used the Array to get home as quickly as possible (obviously she couldn't because it would have ended the show after the pilot).

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This is not meant as a personal remark, King, but I'm glad we'd be different types of captains. lol. :angry:

 

Who was Janeway to decide that? The captain. She had the opportunity to save lives. She did. Besides, the Kazon would have taken over the array anyway, and Voyager couldn't have done much about it, ie- they'd still be stuck.

 

She couldn't have known about the Ocampa's abilities; the Ocampa apparently didn't even know at that point.

The Federation upholds morality in most cases and expects it of its officers. Killing creatures directly for selfish reasons is amoral, imo. Signing the death certificates, so to speak, of an entire people just to save your own skin is also amoral, imo. Janeway had to react quickly, or be destroyed by the Kazon. She made one of the only choices available to her to protect the lives of the Ocampan people. If she hadmade any other choice, she would not have been doing her duty.

 

As for Ransom, if he had made it home, his entire crew would have been court-martialed, and the senior officers would have been thrown to a penal colony. If he hadn't realized the err of his ways, I would have been the first to remove Ransom's rank insignia from him upon his return.

 

Doing what needs to be done to survive is one thing, but doing it at the expense of others is completely different. Those aliens were sentient, and had just as much of a right to live as Ransom.

 

I can only hope I would have handled it the same way Janeway did. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

(all IMO; plus, I haven't seen the ep in a looong time, so I need to rewatch it.)

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This is not meant as a personal remark, King, but I'm glad we'd be different types of captains. lol. 

 

LOL!!! :angry:

 

Who was Janeway to decide that? The captain. She had the opportunity to save lives. She did.

 

But she was concerned about shifting power balances in that quadrant. I would say blowing up the array certainly did that. First of all, it destroyed a piece of Nacene technology which the Ocampa may have been able to use in the future and made an enemy of the Kazon.

 

Besides, the Kazon would have taken over the array anyway, and Voyager couldn't have done much about it, ie- they'd still be stuck.

 

I remember Tuvok mentioning in that episode that the device for returning Voyager to the Alpha Quad. was functioning. They had time to use it.

 

She couldn't have known about the Ocampa's abilities; the Ocampa apparently didn't even know at that point.

 

Kes remarked that they had mental abilities to another Ocampa, but they had stagnated because of an overdependence on the Caretaker.

 

The Federation upholds morality in most cases and expects it of its officers. Killing creatures directly for selfish reasons is amoral, imo. Signing the death certificates, so to speak, of an entire people just to save your own skin is also amoral, imo.

 

Not in those exceptional circumstances. I'm sure if Picard had decided to kill all the Borg with the "virus" that Hugh was carrying, then the Federation would have accepted that. I believe the same thing would have applied to being marooned on the other side of the galaxy.

 

Janeway had to react quickly, or be destroyed by the Kazon. She made one of the only choices available to her to protect the lives of the Ocampan people. If she hadmade any other choice, she would not have been doing her duty.

 

I don't know about that. If she made the decision to return the ship home, that may be interpreted as a Captain looking after her crew. The Kazon and Ocampa situtation should have been avoided with no interference.

 

As for Ransom, if he had made it home, his entire crew would have been court-martialed, and the senior officers would have been thrown to a penal colony. If he hadn't realized the err of his ways, I would have been the first to remove Ransom's rank insignia from him upon his return.

 

If I was Ransom, I would have removed the alterations to the Equinox's engines and deleted all evidence of the actions of the crew before I reached Earth. I would claim to Starfleet that the ship had entered some kind of space rift or some new techology was used and left in the Delta. If Starfleet wanted evidence, the entire ship's database could be deleted and blamed on damage to the computer suffered during the return to the Alpha. It's unlikely the crew would have spoken out and incriminate themselves.

 

Doing what needs to be done to survive is one thing, but doing it at the expense of others is completely different. Those aliens were sentient, and had just as much of a right to live as Ransom.

 

Meh, given the opportunity to kill some aliens and getting my ship and crew home, I would have sacrificed the aliens.

 

I can only hope I would have handled it the same way Janeway did. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

Nice philosophy, unless you happen to be one of the "few".

Edited by The King

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About the only way a male captain would've worked out is if he still had a boyfriend back on Earth.

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About the only way a male captain would've worked out is if he still had a boyfriend back on Earth.

271407[/snapback]

:angry: Don't you mean girlfriend ?

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About the only way a male captain would've worked out is if he still had a boyfriend back on Earth.

271407[/snapback]

:angry: Don't you mean girlfriend ?

271476[/snapback]

 

No, I mean boyfriend. Janeway did have a boyfirend (fiance, whatever) right? So for Voyager with a man captain to be interesting, that fact had to be the same. Meaning: A gay captain.

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About the only way a male captain would've worked out is if he still had a boyfriend back on Earth.

271407[/snapback]

:angry: Don't you mean girlfriend ?

271476[/snapback]

 

No, I mean boyfriend. Janeway did have a boyfirend (fiance, whatever) right? So for Voyager with a man captain to be interesting, that fact had to be the same. Meaning: A gay captain.

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Well, that certainly would have been different..I'm not totally oppossed to that idea..As you say it would be interesting..But I don't think that a gay captain would be accepted by too many fans..

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Where can I see a picture of Bujold online?

 

I don't have the VOY 1st season on dvd yet.

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* eyes burn *

 

ahhhh.....

 

Good thing she dropped out.

 

*needs new eyes*

Edited by Cougar

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Had I been captain of Voyager, I just would've rigged some timed explosives to the caretaker array, and boogied out of there. That is, I would've used the array to head back to the Alpha quadrant, before it blew up.

Edited by Tench745

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A female captain does add a lot to it. Janeway was also a good actress. However, the main reason I love voyager so much is the doctor. I could otherwise be indifferent about the captain. Her being female however did add to some of the plots and humor.

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Had I been captain of Voyager, I just would've rigged some timed explosives to the caretaker array, and boogied out of there. That is, I would've used the array to head back to the Alpha quadrant, before it blew up.

 

Yes!!!!

 

I agree.

 

That's pretty much what I was saying. :laugh:

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i think would not make a differant man of command voyager becuse their would of same old story but i think deal with borg would not happen.

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No!

I say no because all other series have had male leads and it was time for a change. At times, I didn't agree with Captain Janeway and her tactics but it was refreshing to see a female in command of a her own starship. :) B) B) B) B) B) B)

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OK we've seen a man and a woman and we've seen it all but I'd like to see a alien as captain in an all new ST series. It would be nice to ahve a new series based on a Klingon ship.

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Voyager wouldn't have been the same with a male Captain. Captain Janeway was a refreshing change. And I'd love to see a ST series based on a Klingon ship!

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