No Voyager Fans

[gdog243 0]

I noticed that this forum is one of the most inactive forums on this entire site. I can understand if the board is small, but there are a lot of people who frequent this place daily. I would have thought with the DVDs coming out this year, this forum would be somewhat busy. Where are all the voyager fans, or even fans of specific characters? I know voyager wasn't the best series, (That is debatable) but it's also not the worst.

 

:)

 

As for me, I've been watching the first 3 seasons of the show, and it's as good as I remember it. I'm liking Kes even more than I thought I would, and for some reason, I am finding Tuvok to be really really annoying. I watched Real Life last night and hope to finally finish season three by the weekend. Also, Kes's new hairdo that she got in Before and After is so much better than the blonde look she had. Jennifer finally seemed comfortable with the role, and it's a shame that her most interesting time (Before and After to The Gift) was so short. I really wish she hadn't left the series.

Edited August 24, 2004 by gdog243

[Mike 5]

I do agree that this is a rather inactive forum at times. That's why occasionally I try to wake everybody up.. Like my 'Ideal First Officer' thread..But I don't think we can say that there are no Voyager fans here..Just a lot of quiet ones..And there have been recent posts in this forum so it's not totally dead...

 

I too am enjoying watching Voyager on DVD..I'm up to disc 6 on season 3..I just watched Rise last night..I agree with your assessment of both Kes and Tuvok..I'm liking Kes alot..Especially in this 3rd season..Too bad she had to leave.. And perhaps Tuvok will become more likeable in the later years..?

[LoveMalePecs1 0]

Voyager Fan is here!!

 

And i think that Besides Voyager the other spinoffs i was more keen on was TNG

So-So on DS9 but had its moments in the ongoing saga of the Frandschise and it was sort of interesting to see the Kes Personality the Hair and Wardrobe change from 1-4 as for Tuvok being annoying he's just being a Vulcan.

:(

[Jeanway 0]

Hey!! I'm here!!! I'm a Voyager fan AND a big Janeway fan. Heck, I even did an alternate ending RPG for Voyager. I love Voyager. I even named one of my Iguanas 'Kes' Yea, I found Tuvok annoying sometimes too, as well as Neelix. sure, I'll talk Voyager anytime.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Of the 5 series Voyager is my least favorite, for me the first 2 seasons (in their first run) were what set my opinion. I watched most of season 1 and then some of season 2 when they were in their first run and just didn't care for them. I didn't really tune back in until 5th or 6th season, maybe even the 7th season but by then I only watched from time to time.

 

I've gone back and re-watched the 3rd season and most of seasons 4 through 7 and found quite a few that I liked but the first 2 seasons are still way down the list in my book.

 

Anyway, for me my list of favorite series looks like this. DS9, TOS, TNG, ENT and then Voyager.

[Jeanway 0]

That's so funny VBG. I watched Voyager for quite while before I warmed up to Janeway. Her hard exterior made it hard for me to like her. But I saw moments when the softer, more motherly side of Janeway came out. I think she really felt like the crew was her family and she was very protective of them. I also saw the relationship between her and Chakotay fester and smoulder. Especially when they had to spend that time on that planet alone when they were both infect by a virus. That one is my favorite episode, I think. And also the one where the Macro's showed up on the ship and she went into hand to hand combat with them, stripping down to her t-shirt, that was so cool.

[HRH The KING 0]

I didn't really like Voyager.

 

The ship looked very cool and well designed and the concept of the show was interesting, but it depended greatly on having very likable characters and that's where the show failed.

 

Aside from the Doctor, Tom Paris and Seven, the characters were generally boring and unlikable.

 

The show definately improved when Jeri Ryan joined. She was very pretty and all that, but more than that, her character was interesting and it pushed the show forward. Unfortunately, the flaw of having so many deadweight characters proved too much.

 

IMO Voyager was the fourth best Trek show behind (1) DS9 (2) TNG and (3) TOS. But with all it's flaws Voyager was still better than ENTERPRISE.

 

[gdog243 0]

I'm glad I'm not going insane over the tuvok thing. I know he was a popular character, but I just can't get warmed up to him.

 

Good to know this forum is alive and well, especially this year.

[gdog243 0]

The show definately improved when Jeri Ryan joined. She was very pretty and all that, but more than that, her character was interesting and it pushed the show forward. Unfortunately, the flaw of having so many deadweight characters proved too much.

 

255542[/snapback]

 

I tried to like Jeri Ryan, but it seemed like the show pushed the ensamble to the side and focused on her, Janeway and the Doctor most of the time. I still wish if Ryan had joined the cast, Lien would still be able to stay and have someone like Neelix or Kim go. Kes was such an interesting character, and her treatment in "Fury" is insulting.

[Mike 5]

The show definately improved when Jeri Ryan joined. She was very pretty and all that, but more than that, her character was interesting and it pushed the show forward. Unfortunately, the flaw of having so many deadweight characters proved too much.

 

255542[/snapback]

 

I tried to like Jeri Ryan, but it seemed like the show pushed the ensamble to the side and focused on her, Janeway and the Doctor most of the time. I still wish if Ryan had joined the cast, Lien would still be able to stay and have someone like Neelix or Kim go. Kes was such an interesting character, and her treatment in "Fury" is insulting.

255556[/snapback]

I like both Kes and 7 and thought they were good Voyager characters..I do wish Kes could have stayed.That would have been great..Though they annoy me at times I feel that Neelix and Tuvok are key characters to the show..I know some of you will question this especially where Neelix is concerned. But I feel he is vital..He kept things interesting (especially in the early seasons)and added a lot of color to the show..Then again, I also like Quark on DS9!..The only one that I'm not crazy about on Voyager is Kim..

[HRH The KING 0]

I'm glad I'm not going insane over the tuvok thing. I know he was a popular character, but I just can't get warmed up to him.

 

He was just a boring character. Full Vulcans usually are. He didn't have the Human / Vulcan conflict like Spock did to make him interesting.

 

Lien seemed a pleasant actress but there was very little for her to do on Voyager. Her character just didn't do anything at all. I feel that Neelix should never have even been on that show. He was simply an annoying character. Harry Kim was second most annoying. I just never believed that an Ensign, fresh out of the academy would be posted as Operations Manager on a starship as his first assignment.

 

Quark was a terrific character on Voyager because at first he was just supposed to be this greedy Ferengi but he became so endearing as did his relationship with Odo. In all, I feel the Ferengi were superbly written on DS9 as were many other things. I love DS9, I'm one of these Trek fans who consider it the best Trek show. It's a shame Voyager couldn't reach the same levels of excellence, but then again, DS9 didn't have Rick Berman to interfere as much.

Edited August 25, 2004 by The King

[Mike 5]

Lien seemed a pleasant actress but there was very little for her to do on Voyager. Her character just didn't do anything at all. I feel that Neelix should never have even been on that show. He was simply an annoying character. Harry Kim was second most annoying. I just never believed that an Ensign, fresh out of the academy would be posted as Operations Manager on a starship as his first assignment.

 

I agree with you about Harry Kim..How did an Ensign get that job anyway ? However, even though they didn't seem to get enough to do I can't imagine Voyager without Kes and Neelix..The same can be said of Chekov and Sulu in TOS and Crusher and Troi in TNG..They didn't get a lot of meaningful scenes either but they were essential to their shows..

[A l t e r E g o 9]

[color=gold

 

 

I am a fan of VOY, just not of the series as a whole; it was a great premise that ended up being poorly managed. Some of the characters were (as with ENT) sorely underused or just plain useless.

 

The show would have benefited from having a 'map' of series devolvement, direction and of goals of every sort laid out before it embarked but they chose to only play it week to week and that imo caused it to suffer needlessly.

 

BUT, I still think many of the episodes are good sci-fi and some I'm absolutely dying to see again. I plan to buy every season with a hopeful attitude that what I thought wasn't so hot the first time out will be better the second time around.[/color]

[HRH The KING 0]

I agree with you about Harry Kim..How did an Ensign get that job anyway ? However, even though they didn't seem to get enough to do I can't imagine Voyager without Kes and Neelix..The same can be said of Chekov and Sulu in TOS and Crusher and Troi in TNG..They didn't get a lot of meaningful scenes either but they were essential to their shows..

 

I can imagine Voyager without them. I mean Neelix seemed to be the Ships' Resident Idiot, and Kes was what? The Ship's Resident Elf?

 

Chekov and Sulu at least had definable purposes on the Enterprise and so did Crusher and Troi, though Troi was definately second only to Wesley in terms of being annoying.

 

 

I am a fan of VOY, just not of the series as a whole; it was a great premise that ended up being poorly managed. Some of the characters were (as with ENT) sorely underused or just plain useless.

 

I would agree with that. With better characters, VOY would have been very good.

[fredbroca 0]

I really liked voyager but I have to agree the first few seasons went a little slow. I did like some of the early shows it just seemed like the writers had this really good idea called voyager but when they sat down to write they could not think of any good storys. The show did start to get good after seven came on board but like other people have said they just seemed to forget about everybody else but janeway and seven with the doctor every once in awhile. I will have to agree with the actor that played the first officer(their is not way I will be able to spell his name) by the end of the show he was just background with very few lines. In closing I did like voyager it was a good show but it did have problems and I wish they would have done somthing different with the last show. Why did they have to do it the way they did?

[HRH The KING 0]

The show did start to get good after seven came on board but like other people have said they just seemed to forget about everybody else but janeway and seven with the doctor every once in awhile.

 

They gave attention to Tom Paris and B'Lanna too. Tuvok, Chakotay, Neelix and Kim didn't matter because they were inherantly boring characters.

 

I will have to agree with the actor that played the first officer(their is not way I will be able to spell his name) by the end of the show he was just background with very few lines.

 

His name was Chakotay, and the actors name was Robert Beltran. He was the most boring character, and don't get me started on the "romance" with Seven that came from nowhere and had never even been hinted at before to any significant degree.

 

In closing I did like voyager it was a good show but it did have problems and I wish they would have done somthing different with the last show. Why did they have to do it the way they did?

 

Why?

 

Two words.

 

"Rick" and "Berman".

[ragingtarg 0]

It sort of disappoints me that there are so many Voyager fans here, but that they're pretty inactive. But there are loads of people who think Janeway reinvented the typical captain, and that the show really pushed the boundaries.

 

Yeah, the show was a bit slow at first, but it picked up as time went along. There are a few classic episodes among all the seasons, I should think.

[HRH The KING 0]

The show did have some good episodes, but again, the weakness of character killed the show.

 

I think the show simply continued the downward slide of Trek in recent years which will only continue to get worse. Major changes are required before a sixth series is commissioned after ENT hopefully dies a quick death before it embarasses and demeans Trek any further. These problems must be addressed before they start thinking about yet another movie, which will probably bomb.

 

A new outlook and leadership is needed for the franchise before it degenerates into a pale shadow of what Trek should be.

 

[Mike 5]

The show did have some good episodes, but again, the weakness of character killed the show.

 

I think the show simply continued the downward slide of Trek in recent years which will only continue to get worse. Major changes are required before a sixth series is commissioned after ENT hopefully dies a quick death before it embarasses and demeans Trek any further. These problems must be addressed before they start thinking about yet another movie, which will probably bomb.

 

A new outlook and leadership is needed for the franchise before it degenerates into a pale shadow of what Trek should be.

 

255675[/snapback]

Well, I certainly disagree..Voyager isn't my favorite series but I like it alot..And the show wasn't killed..It was on for the full 7 years. There were lots of great episodes that I'm anxious to rediscover with the DVDS..

 

I know that you're highly critical of the current series and the franchise as a whole. But I for one am anxious for the upcoming season and the promise of the next movie..

[HRH The KING 0]

Well, I certainly disagree..Voyager isn't my favorite series but I like it alot..And the show wasn't killed..It was on for the full 7 years. There were lots of great episodes that I'm anxious to rediscover with the DVDS..

 

When I wrote "killed" I meant that the show never really reached the levels that I think TNG and DS9 reached in terms of quality. I didn't mean it was cancelled, which it obviously wasn't.

 

I know that you're highly critical of the current series and the franchise as a whole. But I for one am anxious for the upcoming season and the promise of the next movie..

 

I have to be critical of the franchise right now, because I believe it is in trouble. ENT has been abysmal IMO. Hopefully, it may improve with Season 4 and I sincerely hope it does. News of a new movie would normally peak my interest but after what I think was a terrible last movie and it's poor performance at the Box Office, I believe it would be foolish to waste millions of dollars on a movie that will be an embarrassment, since I no longer believe that Rick Berman and Brannon Braga are capable of reversing the downward spiral of Star Trek.

 

It could be that I am the only one who sees trouble in the franchise and I may be the only one who does not believe that ENT is of a sufficient standard. I like Trek to be the best it can be, I only see mediocrity now with the franchise and it breaks my heart to say that, but I believe it is true.

 

What Trek needs right now is to be looked at very carefully and it's future absolutely secured before anymore movie folly's are planned. The producers should concentrate on ENT and try to improve the show, although I believe it may already be too late. Hopefully, when it's over they can let Trek rest for a while and then come back to it with a fresh approach.

 

[Gotabite 0]

I was out of town over the weekend and missed getting into this discussion early. But I'd like to say that Voyager is my very favorite STAR TREK series. In fact, it is what brought me back to Star Trek after the original series went off. I did not warm up to The Next Generation until much later, after it went into reruns. Plus, I never liked Deep Space Nine. The strong female roles on Voyager with the plots that were centered around them really appealed to me. I liked Captain Janeway, B'Elanna Torres, and Seven of Nine. I also liked Kes, and even the female villains. When I first came to this web site I posted numerous topics in the forum that related to Voyager. Some of them were responded to quite well, others were not. I personally have my own Voyager library. As I taped many of my favorite episodes, when the reruns were on UPN. I truly believe when Voyager reruns were removed from UPN, and not picked up anywhere else, this was even a bigger blow to the Voyager fans, who were trying to stay connected to the series. Spike TV has reruns of Deep Space Nine and The Next Generation. The Sci-Fi channel shows reruns from the original series. Most of us Voyager fans have no way of seeing our favorite episodes now except to buy the DVD's, which I won't, because I have the episodes that I like................and I know I'm in the minority here......but I am not a big DVD fan so I won't be purchasing the DVD episodes.......................Sorry but I will take my surround sound VHS tapes any day over DVD'S.

[gdog243 0]

^I agree with you about the voyager female roles. One of the things I liked about the original premise of voyager was that it was ment to show the female class that they can do anything as good as guys can. I liked the fact that they had a female captain, and a female active in your face person like Be'lana. It's a shame when they did bring in Ryan that they just used her as a sex symbol. It didn't overall match what voyager was trying to accomplish.

[ARMS 0]

Superfan

[ragingtarg 0]

When I wrote "killed" I meant that the show never really reached the levels that I think TNG and DS9 reached in terms of quality. I didn't mean it was cancelled, which it obviously wasn't.

 

TNG and DS9 didn't really appeal to me, I guess it was because I thought they were too formal. They seemed like a bunch of lackeys on the trailers I watched, compared to Voyager. I guess everyone's got their own opinion, but I can't help but think that maybe we should all have a little bit of faith in Paramount, Braga and Berman. They might just do exceptionally well on the next series, and maybe even movie.

[HRH The KING 0]

I'd like the DS9 DVD's. Even though I'd have to cope with having Ezri Dax on the later episodes. Ezri was DS9's "Neelix". :)

 

It's a shame when they did bring in Ryan that they just used her as a sex symbol. It didn't overall match what voyager was trying to accomplish.

 

Ryan was brought in to add sex appeal, no doubt, but she still had a strong enough character and she added a new dimension to the show. For all it's flaws, VOY really picked up once she arrived and replaced the boring Kes.

 

I can't help but think that maybe we should all have a little bit of faith in Paramount, Braga and Berman. They might just do exceptionally well on the next series, and maybe even movie.

 

I wish I could share that faith in them, but I don't, and if the next movie and series flop, then the franchise will be in a greater crisis.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I can't help but think that maybe we should all have a little bit of faith in Paramount, Braga and Berman. They might just do exceptionally well on the next series, and maybe even movie.

 

I wish I could share that faith in them, but I don't, and if the next movie and series flop, then the franchise will be in a greater crisis.

256182[/snapback]

 

Paramount is ALREADY moving ahead with the next one so they don't seem as concerned as you and didn't RB say INS and NEM made money? I guess Paramount judges the success of a film a little differently than we do wouldn't you agree?

[mj 7]

I like all the Trek series, but I don't nit pick about how "true" they were to Rodenberry's vision....I think it's alright for others to bring in a different perspective.

 

Now that I am looking closely at DS9, I see a depth there that I had not seen in the other series, but TOS is still my favorite, DS9 is now second, and I like TNG, VOY and ENT equally. But that depth I see may just be a matter of the fact that I am investing my time to " get to know' the characters.

 

I loved Voyager's characters, and was not bored by any of them, or annoyed. I was also saddened by UPN's cessation of Voyager reruns.

 

My favorite character was probably Chakotay, and there is no confusion in my mind whatsoever as to why Seven was attracted to him.

 

One Star Trek writer (TUC) said that some of the richness in TOS was not in the actual episodes, but because the fans have so enlarged the characters, through the movies, and fanficition, etc, that when they view TOS reruns, they bring their larger perspective on the characters into the viewing of the original series.

 

I think this is somewhat true of all Star Trek, and that for many, the Voyager characters are rich because they have invested time and thought into who these characters are, and view episodes with this larger perspective.

[HRH The KING 0]

Paramount is ALREADY moving ahead with the next one so they don't seem as concerned as you and didn't RB say INS and NEM made money? I guess Paramount judges the success of a film a little differently than we do wouldn't you agree?

 

The fact that Paramount is pushing ahead with yet another movie after the poor performance of NEM says it all as to why Trek is failing. They simply want to wring any last dollar/pound out of the franchise even at the expense of it's long term future, instead of learning from their mistakes and re-evaluating where it's going.

 

The fact that Rick Berman says the movie made money doesn't really surprise me. Nemesis performed the worst of any Trek movie to date. It may have been in part due to the release date just before LOTR, but it was outperformed by a dud like "Maid In Manhattan". The low performance suggests even devoted Trek fans stayed away, perhaps due to the bad word of mouth. I decided to see for myself and hoped for the best, and was very disappointed in how poor of a movie it actually was. I didn't like INS but even that did better at the Box Office, but not by much.

 

Producers always try to spin good news about disasterously performing movies. If Paramount thinks that Nemesis was a success, despite the fact that it sunk at the Box Office, then Paramount executives must be smoking some funny cigarettes. However they try to spin the information, Nemesis was a bomb and a flop. It simply continued the downward spiral and the longer we go on without giving Trek's future serious thought, the franchise will get weaker and weaker.

 

The final Box Office tally for Star Trek Nemesis was $41 Million dollars. The price of the movie was $65 Million dollars so it made a considerable loss.

 

 

My favorite character was probably Chakotay, and there is no confusion in my mind whatsoever as to why Seven was attracted to him.

 

If their relationship was hinted at earlier after Seven arrived and it built slowly towards the end of the show, then I might believe it, but it seemed like an afterthought. It just wasn't believable that a relationship developed when the two of them had barely said anything romantic to each other in previous episodes.

 

I think this is somewhat true of all Star Trek, and that for many, the Voyager characters are rich because they have invested time and thought into who these characters are, and view episodes with this larger perspective. 

 

After watching every episode of VOY, the words "Voyager", "Rich" and "Characters" never really occured to me as realistically being in the same sentence.

 

But really, I don't know. At times I feel as though I am the only Trek fan who sees this franchise that I care about on the brink. I just refuse to blindly accept mediocre material simply because it says "Star Trek" on it, not that I'm accusing anyone here of doing so. I want quality Trek, and I don't see that happening from ENT or yet another movie from Berman, Braga and co.

 

:)

Edited August 27, 2004 by The King

[gdog243 0]

But really, I don't know. At times I feel as though I am the only Trek fan who sees this franchise that I care about on the brink. I just refuse to blindly accept mediocre material simply because it says "Star Trek" on it, not that I'm accusing anyone here of doing so. I want quality Trek, and I don't see that happening from ENT or yet another movie from Berman, Braga and co.

 

  :)

256436[/snapback]

 

No you're not. I too see this franchise that I liked loyally drendal down into just blandness and mediocrity. This is why I much enjoy the formar series's (DS9, TNG, soon Star Trek) more than I do Enterprise. I'm not even looking foward to this season, because it's the fourth season and the characters are bland bland bland. As for the movie, if B&B weren't involved and someone like Ron Moore, Jon Frakes, (As director) or even Joss Wheadon or JMS, (Guy who did B5) I might have higher hopes. Heck, even if Braga wasn't part of the movie but Berman was, I would have high hopes. Now I'm just not sure. This is why I am loving the DVD's I have baught, with Star Trek on the way.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

They simply want to wring any last dollar/pound out of the franchise even at the expense of it's long term future,

 

The final Box Office tally for Star Trek Nemesis was $41 Million dollars. The price of the movie was $65 Million dollars so it made a considerable loss.

 

No something still doesn't add up, how are they milking every last dollar from the franshise if they're still 24 Million in the hole from NEM?