And what of Lore?

[Crazy-Trek-Kitten 0]

True but I wonder what happen on that planet to mess him up so much!

[KIMIMELA 1]

What planet?

[Yillara Skye 1]

If, before his untimely (say it ain't so!!) death, Data took it upon himself to fix the damage done to Lore by the phaser fire at the end of Decent, and then fix the problem that their father did not live long enough to repair...

do you think Lore could have lived to become a productive member of the galaxy WITH his memory of his old life intact or would it have been necessary to wipe his memory and start over.

17477[/snapback]

 

Hmm, I don't know if you could ever trust my brother.

318005[/snapback]

Funny one Data!

 

Cara.. his homeworld was Omicron Theta, so that is the planet they were referring to.

[Crazy-Trek-Kitten 0]

What planet?   

318069[/snapback]

 

Omicran theta his birthplace.

 

But you have to admit lore is hot.

[Stephen of Borg 2]

I like Lore. He's a second side to the same person. Good and Bad, what we all have.

[Takara_Soong 4]

[but you have to admit lore is hot.

318226[/snapback]

 

I don't have to respond to that statement. I'll just let my avatar and personal banner say it for me. LOL

[Crazy-Trek-Kitten 0]

[but you have to admit lore is hot.

318226[/snapback]

 

I don't have to respond to that statement. I'll just let my avatar and personal banner say it for me. LOL

318545[/snapback]

 

ha ha ha I think he wants to do evil things to you ha ha ha.

[Data 0]

[but you have to admit lore is hot.

318226[/snapback]

 

I don't have to respond to that statement. I'll just let my avatar and personal banner say it for me. LOL

318545[/snapback]

 

Takara, my brother is evil. He needed to be shut off.

[Major Viper 0]

Lore is hot and I like him but not so bad like Data. That`s my hero. :blink:

[Odie 0]

[but you have to admit lore is hot.

318226[/snapback]

 

I don't have to respond to that statement. I'll just let my avatar and personal banner say it for me. LOL

318545[/snapback]

 

Takara, my brother is evil. He needed to be shut off.

318740[/snapback]

 

Some people just like bad boys! I mean bad androids! :blink:

[Yillara Skye 1]

[but you have to admit lore is hot.

318226[/snapback]

 

I don't have to respond to that statement. I'll just let my avatar and personal banner say it for me. LOL

318545[/snapback]

 

Takara, my brother is evil. He needed to be shut off.

318740[/snapback]

Or his programming checked into to finally figure out what caused him to become the way he is..

[Takara_Soong 4]

[but you have to admit lore is hot.

318226[/snapback]

 

I don't have to respond to that statement. I'll just let my avatar and personal banner say it for me. LOL

318545[/snapback]

 

Takara, my brother is evil. He needed to be shut off.

318740[/snapback]

Or his programming checked into to finally figure out what caused him to become the way he is..

318909[/snapback]

 

And as you can see from my title ("Android Quality Control Specialist"), I'm just the person to do that.

[Data 0]

[but you have to admit lore is hot.

318226[/snapback]

 

I don't have to respond to that statement. I'll just let my avatar and personal banner say it for me. LOL

318545[/snapback]

 

Takara, my brother is evil. He needed to be shut off.

318740[/snapback]

Or his programming checked into to finally figure out what caused him to become the way he is..

318909[/snapback]

 

And as you can see from my title ("Android Quality Control Specialist"), I'm just the person to do that.

318920[/snapback]

 

I am an Android turned Capitalist. I am going to go to Feregenar and learn how to make profit. Is there any profit in fixing my brother?

[Takara_Soong 4]

I am an Android turned Capitalist. I am going to go to Feregenar and learn how to make profit. Is there any profit in fixing my brother?

318941[/snapback]

 

The only profit to be made would be by selling him to me.

[Yillara Skye 1]

[but you have to admit lore is hot.

318226[/snapback]

 

I don't have to respond to that statement. I'll just let my avatar and personal banner say it for me. LOL

318545[/snapback]

 

Takara, my brother is evil. He needed to be shut off.

318740[/snapback]

Or his programming checked into to finally figure out what caused him to become the way he is..

318909[/snapback]

 

And as you can see from my title ("Android Quality Control Specialist"), I'm just the person to do that.

318920[/snapback]

 

LOL!

 

I am an Android turned Capitalist. I am going to go to Feregenar and learn how to make profit. Is there any profit in fixing my brother?

Maybe, Data. Hey, wait a sec... wouldn't you then be going against what that trial fought so hard to establish?? The fact that you(and of course the rest of your family) are not property. So if you are trying to make a profit off your brother(or at least his repairs), would you then be saying he is property??? :)

[Takara_Soong 4]

Maybe, Data. Hey, wait a sec... wouldn't you then be going against what that trial fought so hard to establish?? The fact that you(and of course the rest of your family) are not property. So if you are trying to make a profit off your brother(or at least his repairs), would you then be saying he is property???   :)

318955[/snapback]

 

That ruling only seems to apply to Data since they sure didn't apply it to Lore. Is there anything closer to capital punishment than disassembly for an android so they obviously didn't consider that Lore had any rights and only paid lip service to Data and Lal.

[Yillara Skye 1]

Maybe, Data. Hey, wait a sec... wouldn't you then be going against what that trial fought so hard to establish?? The fact that you(and of course the rest of your family) are not property. So if you are trying to make a profit off your brother(or at least his repairs), would you then be saying he is property???   :)

318955[/snapback]

 

That ruling only seems to apply to Data since they sure didn't apply it to Lore. Is there anything closer to capital punishment than disassembly for an android so they obviously didn't consider that Lore had any rights and only paid lip service to Data and Lal.

318957[/snapback]

*shrug* I guess that could be true. And I agree that disassembly could equate out to capital punishment for an android. I had figured that the ruling applied to the whole family, especially after the whole situation that occured during "The Offspring"

[Crazy-Trek-Kitten 0]

[but you have to admit lore is hot.

318226[/snapback]

 

I don't have to respond to that statement. I'll just let my avatar and personal banner say it for me. LOL

318545[/snapback]

 

Takara, my brother is evil. He needed to be shut off.

318740[/snapback]

Or his programming checked into to finally figure out what caused him to become the way he is..

318909[/snapback]

 

And as you can see from my title ("Android Quality Control Specialist"), I'm just the person to do that. :)

318920[/snapback]

 

Hay give me a turn at him he he ! weee!!!!

[Data 0]

Maybe, Data. Hey, wait a sec... wouldn't you then be going against what that trial fought so hard to establish?? The fact that you(and of course the rest of your family) are not property. So if you are trying to make a profit off your brother(or at least his repairs), would you then be saying he is property???   :)

318955[/snapback]

 

That ruling only seems to apply to Data since they sure didn't apply it to Lore. Is there anything closer to capital punishment than disassembly for an android so they obviously didn't consider that Lore had any rights and only paid lip service to Data and Lal.

318957[/snapback]

 

 

I am going to make a profit on the sale of my brother at the highest price.

[Takara_Soong 4]

Maybe, Data. Hey, wait a sec... wouldn't you then be going against what that trial fought so hard to establish?? The fact that you(and of course the rest of your family) are not property. So if you are trying to make a profit off your brother(or at least his repairs), would you then be saying he is property??? :) 

318955[/snapback]

 

That ruling only seems to apply to Data since they sure didn't apply it to Lore. Is there anything closer to capital punishment than disassembly for an android so they obviously didn't consider that Lore had any rights and only paid lip service to Data and Lal.

318957[/snapback]

*shrug* I guess that could be true. And I agree that disassembly could equate out to capital punishment for an android. I had figured that the ruling applied to the whole family, especially after the whole situation that occurred during "The Offspring"

318987[/snapback]

 

The Offspring and other episodes such as Silicon Avatar and Clues are what I mean by Starfleet only paying lip service to Data's right, in particular, and android rights, in general.

 

Data was ordered to hand Lal over to the Admiral against both his and Lal's wishes. Picard belayed that order however the issue wasn't resolved because of Lal's cascade failure. In both Silicon Avatar and Clues Data was threatened with more than disassembly. I recall the threat of stripping him down to his wires being made in Clues.

 

If Lore had been treated like any other being with rights under Federation law he would have been sent to a Federation prison facility. Whether it could hold him is inconsequential. Even if you don't think disassembly is akin to capital punishment, he lost more than his liberty with the Federation's punishment. Can you imagine them putting a human into stasis for "x" number of years as a punishment?

[Data 0]

Takara, my brother is not worth your love. He is dangerous, very dangerous. Would he of sacrificed himself for his crew like I did? No

[Yillara Skye 1]

The Offspring and other episodes such as Silicon Avatar and Clues are what I mean by Starfleet only paying lip service to Data's right, in particular, and android rights, in general.

Ah, ok.

 

Data was ordered to hand Lal over to the Admiral against both his and Lal's wishes. Picard belayed that order however the issue wasn't resolved because of Lal's cascade failure. In both Silicon Avatar and Clues Data was threatened with more than disassembly. I recall the threat of stripping him down to his wires being made in Clues.

I already knew this part. The whole him being property thing was merely a remark on the grounds of Data suddenly wishing to make a profit on his brother. Meaning he himself suddenly regarding his brother as property seemed a bit awkward was all. Not whether or not Starfleet would see him as property, though at first or even second or third view one could surmise that the trial was enough to gain rights not only for Data but the rest of his family. So at least the Soong-type androids would have immunity from the rule(of course not the thought as people are free to think whatever they wish) that they are merely property that the Federation could do whatever they want to them. That does get brought up repeatedly in canon and non-canon storylines, so it almost becomes completely obvious that every android we get introduced to Soong type or not would have to go through a similar trial to gain the immunity that Data recieved(and yes I know it is not a complete immunity as the threat was made a time or two to almost completely or completely dismantle him. And if I am correct one or even both cases mentioned, it was Picard who made the threats. Which is way out there on the grounds that it was Picard who defended Data in the trial.. and though not right from the start was later prepared to defend Lal.)

 

Long story/debate cut short: THe whole property remark was a play on what Data said here about being an Android turned Capitalist, and wishing to make a profit off of his brother's repairs and that was merely all. Not meant to be a strong debate on android rights and whether or not they truly are in effect or not.

[Data 0]

By the way, I know I am not really Data. I am just doing a little RPG.

[Yillara Skye 1]

By the way, I know I am not really Data. I am just doing a little RPG. 

319110[/snapback]

LOL, I think at least most of us here know that.. :)

Edited April 16, 2005 by Yillara_Soong

[Takara_Soong 4]

Long story/debate cut short: THe whole property remark was a play on what Data said here about being an Android turned Capitalist, and wishing to make a profit off of his brother's repairs and that was merely all. Not meant to be a strong debate on android rights and whether or not they truly are in effect or not.

319059[/snapback]

 

I know Data was fooling around. I was making comments based on things you said in an attempt to get this thread back on topic. I plead as much guilty as everyone else who took it off topic. I thought your comments made for an interesting discussion which I tried to continued and hoped others would join in.

 

BTW, it wasn't Picard who made the threats in Silicon Avatar. It was Dr. Marr.

Edited April 17, 2005 by Takara_Soong

[Yillara Skye 1]

I know Data was fooling around. I was making comments based on things you said in an attempt to get this thread back on topic. I plead as much guilty as everyone else who took it off topic. I thought your comments made for an interesting discussion which I tried to continued and hoped others would join in.

I am sorry, Takara. I had taken it as that you had thought that I had glazed over everything concerning Data and the trial, instead of turning it into a discussion. I guess I read it wrong, so I apologize if it seems like I kinda snapped a bit harshly or at least seemed like I went heavily defensive. And I can agree about having to plead guilty, since when I made that remark about him deciding on turning his brother into a profit... was meant to be a part of the whole off topic stuff(and I guess at the same time in a way bringing it back on topic)

[ddillard 2]

As for why Lore became evil, I think that it had to do with many reasons all working together. First he was given to much emotion before he had a chance to develop enough to be able to handle it. Second, I find it very likely that he was greeted with fear and ridicule by the colonists. I have a feeling that data also met this same cruelty, which would explain why the Soong's found it necessary to delete his memories of "his childhood" in order to spare him from the harsh memories and treatment that he probably received at the hands of the colonists. Also, I think that a big difference between Data and Lore is that Lore was simply disassembled when something went wrong, there was no attempt to remove the "childhood" memories so that they would not effect him, he was simply abandoned. On the other hand Data has no memory prior to his being discovered by Starfleet. After he was discovered he likely spent alot of time with Starfleet personnel then later attended Starfleet Academy thus putting him in a structured environment that was able to teach him values and morals that Lore may not have had the privilege of being taught.

[Data 0]

dddilard, that is a great observation. Takara will love it.

 

Yes, it is probably true that Lore could not handle the emotions and the people on the planet made things worse for him. He may be a study on why people turn bad.

Edited April 18, 2005 by Data

[Yillara Skye 1]

As for why Lore became evil, I think that it had to do with many reasons all working together.  First he was given to much emotion before he had a chance to develop enough to be able to handle it.  Second, I find it very likely that he was greeted with fear and ridicule by the colonists.  I have a feeling that data also met this same cruelty, which would explain why the Soong's found it necessary to delete his memories of "his childhood" in order to spare him from the harsh memories and treatment that he probably received at the hands of the colonists.  Also, I think that a big difference between Data and Lore is that Lore was simply disassembled when something went wrong, there was no attempt to remove the "childhood" memories so that they would not effect him, he was simply abandoned.  On the other hand Data has no memory prior to his being discovered by Starfleet.  After he was discovered he likely spent alot of time with Starfleet personnel then later attended Starfleet Academy thus putting him in a structured environment that was able to teach him values and morals that Lore may not have had the privilege of being taught.

319575[/snapback]

Which of course, I can truly agree with the observation as it is quite close to what I feel may have happened. And it would also then explain, or at least could explain Dr. Tainer's remark that she had feared that Data would become like Lore.. twisted and evil(so to speak). But since they had erased his childhood memories, this likelyhood of him becoming like his older brother may have been a very slim chance.

[Data 0]

Dr. Soong gave both Data and Lore the same appearance. His when he was younger. Perhaps it was Data's appearance that upset Dr. Tainer.