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Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Enterprise Too Militaristic

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Enterprise is just getting too militaristic for my tastes. I enjoyed it for a story arc and understand that Starfleet is a kind of military, but it's nothing like what we have today. Infact, I'm wonderring if it's a new kind of organization that doesn't exist yet, perhaps some kind of organization hybrid? Anywho, that's not the point of this discussion. My point is that there's too much fighting and not enough explorration and scientific missions. Yes, conflict is needed for a plot, but Trek has done it years with a ship of explorration and with scientific missions. I sincerely hope we can go back to the goold old days and perhaps even have the really out there episodes like "Vox Sola". What do you all think? Should Enterprise return to the mission of seasons 1 and 2, but with story arcs, or embark on "mini-missions" instead of explorration?

Edited by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

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Uh Uh :biggrin: Not too, just enough, I think. They have hit upon just the right balance. That's just my opinion. :naughty:

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Im with Jeanway on this one I recon Enterprise has a good balance of action and story, besides I think that a good dose of action will keep Enterprise a long running series for years to come. Look at the spectacular effects they have emlpoyed for the end of the Xindi story arc, if there was no arc for action what other effects could be added to another story?

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Stardate:214391.9

 

 

I think that after this season and the Xindi arc is over we may see them return to exploration.But when it all comes down to it fighting gets higher ratings

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Im with Jeanway on this one I recon Enterprise has a good balance of action and story, besides I think that a good dose of action will keep Enterprise a long running series for years to come. Look at the spectacular effects they have emlpoyed for the end of the Xindi story arc, if there was no arc for action what other effects could be added to another story?

I'm not talking about the action. I'm talking about militaristic goals versus explorratory and scientific goals.

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Well they're currently at war so you will see more violence if that is what you mean by militaristic. If I remember people usually died each week in TOS - it was just a different alien or space entity killing them rather than the same one.

 

Let's see - there was that thing that looked like a cornacopia that ate a planet, the giant ameoba, klingons - several episodes, romulans, the creatures that looked like plastic vomit, disease, the sped up race, the comms and yangs, the mbuta, the Nazis, the "Roman Empire", the Gorn. Okay those are just a few I thought of - my point was exploration usually involved conflict and death. The difference was they had a resolution at the end of each episode...that brief moment of humor where Kirk and McCoy rib Spock etc. The Xindi has been continual conflict with no respite. There was just a glimpse of this last week when Archer, Trip and T'Pol were having dinner and Archer said he looked forward to getting back to exploration.

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The violence and death is not what bothers me, but rather the "war" and "conflict between that people and this people". That gets borring fast in sci-fi, at least for me anyway. I've no problem with conflict, but I'd prefer it in a sci-fi setting, not "war in space", know what I mean?

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Well CJLP, it seems like what you're really saying is the Xindi Arc overstayed it's welcome. I felt that way weeks ago - eight weeks would have been okay for an arc like that - maybe 8 - 12 but not a whole season.

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Cap, part of what star trek is about is displaying the current events in such a way that is, more or less, tolerable by the viewers, and this xindi story arc does exactly that. Btw, they ARE fitting it into the TCW storyline so this is just an extension of that. And this ain't nothing compared to when they start delving into the earth/romulan war you know.

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Well CJLP, it seems like what you're really saying is the Xindi Arc overstayed it's welcome.  I felt that way weeks ago - eight weeks would have been okay for an arc like that - maybe 8 - 12 but not a whole season.

Well, it's more of a "That was fun, but I'm ready to move on." If we have yet another conflict with yet another uber-race, then I'll be annoyed. :naughty:

Edited by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

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i found the xindi arc awesome, i think putting it as a whole season arc isnt overated but needed for the scope that the enterprise had to endure to get good ratings

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i found the xindi arc awesome

Me too! I'm so excited about "Zero Hour"! :naughty:

 

i think putting it as a whole season arc isnt overated but needed for the scope that the enterprise had to endure to get good ratings

I don't think it's overated either, I'm just ready for the arc to conclude.

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Although I liked the Xindi, the whole Xindi thing went on a little toooo long for me. I hope that when it's finally over, Enterprise will go back to more first-contact and exploration, with only minor conflicts. At least until the Earth/Romulan conflict.

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I count at least 8 episodes that don't directly deal with the war. That leaves 16 episodes that do deal with some aspect of the war.

 

Besides, who says that Enterprises mission is "Militaristic"? My view has always been that Enterprise was to go and prevent the attack. Destroy the weapon, but prevent the attack by proving to the Xindi that humanity poses no threat to them.

 

Besides, Earth was attacked and Starfleet had to respond to prevent Earth's destruction. We knew that this would take 1 full season to complete. They told us that the mission would be a 1 year mission and 1 year is represented by 1 season.

 

If you think it was a close call in getting Enterprise renewed for a 4th season then I would think that if it was an "exploration only" show that it wouldn't have gotten a 3rd season.

 

This season has been exciting, suspenseful and has kept people on the edge of their seats. This was a good year for Enterprise, and I believe is what saved it from cancellation.

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Enterprise HAD to take on a Military kind of role, given the situation with the Xindi. as I've stated before, Starfleet is more like the Coast Gaurd than anything, and while warfighting is not the Coast Gaurd's (Or Starfleet's) primary mission, it is there, as a secondary role, and can be used in such capacity as needed.

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I count at least 8 episodes that don't directly deal with the war. That leaves 16 episodes that do deal with some aspect of the war.

I know of only 2 or 3. Would you share with us these 8 episodes?

 

Besides, who says that Enterprises mission is "Militaristic"? My view has always been that Enterprise was to go and prevent the attack. Destroy the weapon, but prevent the attack by proving to the Xindi that humanity poses no threat to them.

They're not off explorring and going on scientific missions, so as far as I'm concerned, they're on a military mission. Infact, Degra even said that the NX-01 doesn't make a very good military vessel, Archer said it didn't use to be, that it used to be a ship of explorration. Degra concluded, saying that perhaps it will again.

 

Besides, Earth was attacked and Starfleet had to respond to prevent Earth's destruction. We knew that this would take 1 full season to complete. They told us that the mission would be a 1 year mission and 1 year is represented by 1 season.

This is true, which is why I'm hoping they go back to their mission of explorration for season 4. :naughty:

 

If you think it was a close call in getting Enterprise renewed for a 4th season then I would think that if it was an "exploration only" show that it wouldn't have gotten a 3rd season.

No one's saying it should be an "explorration only" show, just that the focus should be on explorration and not war. TOS & TNG both had the premise of "peaceful explorration". Sure, not every episode was about that, but that was the mission of the ship.

 

This season has been exciting, suspenseful and has kept people on the edge of their seats. This was a good year for Enterprise, and I believe is what saved it from cancellation.

I couldn't agree more! :biggrin:

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Second post to seperate thoughts clearly.

 

I'm speaking from a story telling aspect, not from the show's perspective, incase anyone was wonderring. I miss the good ole days when people were happy with good science-fiction. Now it has to be war, politics, or exciting, edge-of-your-seat suspence. :naughty:

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I like the style and tone of the show and believe that it is necessary of the setting and plot of the series. CJLP, you make reference to "getting back to the old days" but for Enterprise the old days of TOS are in the future and they still have to achieve them. The people in Enterprise are flawed and are allowed to be because they are set 100 years before Kirk and co. I think it would be a bad idea to wave and magic wand and suddenly impose the ideology or feel of previous shows on this one because we will miss out of the strugle for the crew and humanity.

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When I say "the old days", I ment seasons 1 & 2. :tear:

OK now I see what you mean. I think the whole basis of the show means they will come into conflict more anyway but once the season arc is over I'm sure the plots will be more diverse.

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That's it! It doesn't even have to be "space explorration". I just want diversity. I want a new story every week, not more of "last week's" story. I love story arcs, but I also love the "story of the week" format as well. Welp, there's no way to know how they'll do it till season 4 shows up, I just hope that the mini-arcs are diverse. :tear:

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Second post to seperate thoughts clearly.

 

I'm speaking from a story telling aspect, not from the show's perspective, incase anyone was wonderring.  I miss the good ole days when people were happy with good science-fiction.  Now it has to be war, politics, or exciting, edge-of-your-seat suspence. :tear:

For me, CJLP, this season has finally given me the ability to believe that humans, and not any these other species, should lead the Federation, by key things that Archer has done, things that I think are the characteristics that eventually dominate the Federation, but are currently demosnstrated only by the humans with regularity.

 

Namely, in spite of Archer's supposed single-minded focus on his desire and duty to save earth, he has also expended decided effort on the behalf of other species. The two strong examples of this are 1) destroying the Xindi prototype of the weapon to keep the Andorians from having a terrible weapon with which to threaten the Vulcans ( to the astonishment of the Andorians); and 2) sending the Enterprise to finish off the spheres while just a team goes to continue to try to stop the weapon (why? because the Xindi are facing the same magnitude of destruction as the humans.)

 

Contrast the Xindi and the humans: the Xindi acted completely in terms of self-preservation, which is why the weapon exists.

 

Contrast the humans and the Vulcans: Vulcan logic would not allow them to risk going into the expanse to aid the humans ( but the humans now have a complete solution to the Vulcan's problems in the Expanse). Logic would not permit the Vulcans to risk themselves for the humans. Vulcans only help when it is logical.

 

Contrast the humans and the Andorians: The Andorians are driven by their suspicions of the Vulcans, and self-interest, and sought the weapon for themselves.

 

Even in acting in self-interest and self-preservation, the humans have considered a bigger picture, and the value of others besides themselves. Yes, they have also done a couple of morally wrong things, but even those situations were moderated by better values. For instance Archer left food and supplies for the race he stole the warp engine part from.

 

What has been the impact of the humans?

 

The Xindi, who had been manipulated by the sphere-builders, discover this by courageously considering Archer's evidence--questioning closely held beliefs of long standing.

 

The Andorians sent copies of the prototypes schematics secretly to Archer before parting---sharing.

 

It remains to be seen what the Vulcans do, but as Trip said, " I would love to see Sovall's face..." when the humans accomplish their mission.

 

Why should the humans lead or be a leader in the Federation? It all came out in this arc. The Trek saga needed all these pieces. It was at times tedious. But it is GREAT science fiction!

 

And, in spite of the Enterprise bashers, this season has laid the foundations for humans being a lead race in the Federation...broader vision, self-sacrifce, courage, compassion, resourcefulness, tenacity. And time and experience will teach humans everything else they need to know.

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I just don't see it as being more militaristic. Its just good normal Star Trek stories that are great science Fiction. DS9 spent a couple of seasons at war with the Dominion or the Maques. Voyager pretty much had a new enemy to fight every season like the Borg or the Hirogen.

Enterprise is no different than any other Star Trek show.

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Extinction - Archer, Hoshi and Reed are transformed into another race.

 

Impulse - Vulcan Ship of Zombies.

 

Exile - Hoshi almost kidnapped by a telepath.

 

North Star - Cowboys and Skaggs

 

Similitude - Trips Clone

 

Chosen Realm - Religious freaks try to impose their values on others by force.

 

Harbinger - Sphere builder found and the purpose of the expanse is discovered. (I include this one because it doesn't really have anything to do with the "war" itself)

 

Doctor's Orders - Dr. Phlox all alone with Porthos and his imagination.

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In "Countdown", Archer did say that he wanted to return to exploration.

KIrk said the same thing in one of the first EP`s of TOS. I think that he said that, mostly he was an explorer at that point.

 

I guess at some other point he was not. :tear:

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Enterprise is just getting too militaristic for my tastes.  I enjoyed it for a story arc and understand that Starfleet is a kind of military, but it's nothing like what we have today.  Infact, I'm wonderring if it's a new kind of organization that doesn't exist yet, perhaps some kind of organization hybrid?  Anywho, that's not the point of this discussion.  My point is that there's too much fighting and not enough explorration and scientific missions.  Yes, conflict is needed for a plot, but Trek has done it years with a ship of explorration and with scientific missions.  I sincerely hope we can go back to the goold old days and perhaps even have the really out there episodes like "Vox Sola".  What do you all think?  Should Enterprise return to the mission of seasons 1 and 2, but with story arcs, or embark on "mini-missions" instead of explorration?

I guess you have not seen much of TOS. Starfleet is basically millitary. They use our present day Naval ranks, correct. Also, things are not all that peaceful in Archer's time. Kirk got into some nasty battles with the Klingons and Romulans also. I guess you are used to TNG, which was more about exploration. Most of TNG takes place during treaties. As you get into DS9, there is the war with the Dominian. I guess if there is no real war going on, Starfleet can devote more time to exploration.

Edited by Data

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