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prometheus

Data and promotion

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In the episode Redemption, Data proved himself to be an able captain. He served his ship and crew well throughout the series. Some have said that he was too easy to manipulate; but this is nonsense when you consider how often Troi and Riker and the rest of the organic crewmembers ave been taken over by parasites and mind control! Often he was the only one IN control. Now I know that there were rumours that Data would have been promoted in the last film had he not died, but lets forget this for a moment because it DIDN'T happen. Geordi got two promotions. Picard and Riker had offers. Troi went up in the command hierarchy (how!?!) :look: and Worf got promoted too. Beverly was a doctor and so can be left out of this one. But Data. Nothing! Why? Discrimination, I feel is the only answer. If the rest could get promoted then so could he. On his merits! :laugh:

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He didn't get promoted because Data would have looked funny in the cranberry uniform :look:

Oh, don't go and get us Sisters started on this kick...

 

Yes, prometheus....I think him not getting promoted is largely due to discrimination. Stinks to think that in a society that is supposed to be so much better tahn the one we are in today...you still see bias and discrimination.

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One of the reasons I think Data isn't promoted is because you have to really know him to learn that he is capable of leader positions, and nobody, except the crew on the enterprise, really did.. Why Picard didn't promote I simply see as no open spaces. Worf got promoted because Tasha died, and Geordi because they didn't have any steady chief engineer..

 

Why Troi was promoted, I do NOT have a clue..

 

There is of course some discrimation involved, but I don't think it's from anyone on Enterprise..

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One of the reasons I think Data isn't promoted is because you have to really know him to learn that he is capable of leader positions, and nobody, except the crew on the enterprise, really did.. Why Picard didn't promote I simply see as no open spaces. Worf got promoted because Tasha died, and Geordi because they didn't have any steady chief engineer..

 

Why Troi was promoted, I do NOT have a clue..

 

There is of course some discrimation involved, but I don't think it's from anyone on Enterprise..

Yeah, I think in general Star Fleet didn't see Data in the same light as Picard and friends did.

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I think Troi's promotion should be considered in the same way as Bev being a Commander too. Troi was in the same division as Bev in except that her degrees were in pyschology and not medical. She did reach her rank as Ltd. Cmdr before she came to the Enterprise and I think the Bridge Officer's Exam is something that is given to officers in fields that don't usually have command responsibilities.

 

I think there was some discrimination in Data not being promoted. A lot of the people in the upper echelons of Starfleet certainly paid a lot of lip service regarding having the "utmost respect" for Data but treating him with that same respect.

 

I think Data is partially to "blame" as well as he didn't take the iniative to seek promotion. As Riker said when he received the field promotion to captain in BOBW that he realized that it wasn't in Data's nature to be ambitious that he had still considered Data for the first officer's position. Also in Tin Man when Data told Troi that he had realized that the Enterprise was where he was meant to be. I think if Data had put in for assignments on other ships that he might have been promoted sooner than Nemesis.

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See, what I mean...you really don't want to get us started!!! :lol

 

(BTW-- :look: of course he looks good in the cranberry, Lessa!!)

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I think that it had a lot to do with there not being open positions. Data was in the command structure (Which Troi and Crusher really were not due to their fields) so there was not much room for him to go higher unless he left Enterprise.

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I agree with you guys that Data got the shaft on being promoted. But with the knowledge he has he could/should be an admiral, maybe they grade him on a different curve, not really discriminated but they knew what he can do and kept him as is.

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THank you thank you thank you Prometheus!!! (I was gonna post this, but you beat me to it :laugh:)

 

And ooooh no he wouldn't have, crims! he looks darn good in a red uniform :laugh:

Just out of question, when was he in green?

 

Anyways, to answer the question, I think the only possible reason is discrmination. EVERY SINGLE person (with the exception of Tasha who left before the first season was up, for goodness sakes) got promoted before him! Even "ensign" Ro, who wasn't even a regular character! Aside from what you've already said that he was a stellar member of hte crew, was not any easier to be taken over than any one else, and had proved himslef worthy on numerous occasions (worthy of CAPTAIN!! Which is not one but two ranks higher than what he was! Which proves how ready he was to move on to 1st officer), and the fact that I would feel very comfortable with someone like Data in the captain's chair (aside from the fact that he's Data and everything else said so far B), it would also be very useful to have someone with his abilities and ability to gain more abilities and who is so kind, gentle and good-looking :laugh: dealing with the things a captain would have to deal with, NOT TO MENTION the fact that half the time an alien took over the ship, he was the ONLY ONE it didn't affect and HE had to save the crew!!)

 

I don't think it was his fault he wasn't promoted. For example, in Redemption (I think it was) he was a little put off that he wasn't given temporary captaincy (or whatever it's called) of a ship. I think he DID want to be captain, although, like Riker, he might not have WANTED to leave the Enterprise. My problem is that he was never even offered!! :laugh: grrr

 

 

See, this is what happens when you get me started! Don't say I didn't warn you!! :laugh:

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THank you thank you thank you Prometheus!!! (I was gonna post this, but you beat me to it :laugh:)

 

And ooooh no he wouldn't have, crims! he looks darn good in a red uniform :laugh:

Just out of question, when was he in green?

 

Anyways, to answer the question, I think the only possible reason is discrmination. EVERY SINGLE person (with the exception of Tasha who left before the first season was up, for goodness sakes) got promoted before him! Even "ensign" Ro, who wasn't even a regular character! Aside from what you've already said that he was a stellar member of hte crew, was not any easier to be taken over than any one else, and had proved himslef worthy on numerous occasions (worthy of CAPTAIN!! Which is not one but two ranks higher than what he was! Which proves how ready he was to move on to 1st officer), and the fact that I would feel very comfortable with someone like Data in the captain's chair (aside from the fact that he's Data and everything else said so far :laugh:, it would also be very useful to have someone with his abilities and ability to gain more abilities and who is so kind, gentle and good-looking B) dealing with the things a captain would have to deal with, NOT TO MENTION the fact that half the time an alien took over the ship, he was the ONLY ONE it didn't affect and HE had to save the crew!!)

 

I don't think it was his fault he wasn't promoted. For example, in Redemption (I think it was) he was a little put off that he wasn't given temporary captaincy (or whatever it's called) of a ship. I think he DID want to be captain, although, like Riker, he might not have WANTED to leave the Enterprise. My problem is that he was never even offered!! :laugh: grrr

 

 

See, this is what happens when you get me started! Don't say I didn't warn you!! :laugh:

Didn't I warn everyone?!?!?! I told you not to get the Sisters started...and did you listen...noooo, "Don't listen to little old Yillara". I think ~Crims~ was referring to his GOLD uniform when he said green. And I think that Starfleet wanted to hold him back..ambition or not...and we all know Riker really got into the defending Maddox's point of view in "Measure of Man"! Too into it I think(he said he started to believe what he was saying!)

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Ok sisters, take a breath and blow it out, that's it nice and slow.

 

Data should have been promoted and someone at SF must have had a screw loose for not doing it. Now, can anyone answer me this (Takara maybe) In Nemesis, did they mention his RANK going up or just that he was to become first officer?

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I don't recall them mentioning a promotion in rank but I would assume that it would be. In the deleted scene that would have been at the end the new first officer was a commander.

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ok, NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!!! He wasn't even going to be a commander??? WHAT IS THIIS??? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? If there isn't another movie to bring him back I'm going to go dynamite the paramount people's houses as put skunks on their pillows and let loose a barrel full of locusts on them! If I must I will go so far as to fart in their general direction! THESE PEOPLE ARE ALL INSANE! ARGHghglsdgsuhpisuhf[ash9t=0aeur -yw7 5eyt .

 

ok...breathing is good.

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Reason why he wasnt promoted was because it would not have fit the story of TNG..he was after all a character on a tv show..in the end would a promotion have made a difference? when ur the 2nd officer on the best ship in the fleet what else is there.

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Reason why he wasnt promoted was because it would not have fit the story of TNG..he was after all a character on a tv show..in the end would a promotion have made a difference? when ur the 2nd officer on the best ship in the fleet what else is there.

but jdigs...then what was the point of ANY of the others getting promoted?

 

And you re right about the part where you say he is the best Second Officer! He would have been equally great as a 1st Officer, or captain or Admiral!!

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I think i heard somewhere that in some braodcast areas the gold uniforms look green??? Im not sure though.

Also, with respect, I hate people who join in a debate about something on Star Trek by saying, "it's just a show, that's why it wouldn't have worked..."

 

There are two ways to argue for or against something in Star Trek:

 

1. by assuming that the Star Trek Universe is real and workin within those perameters (the internal view) or

2. By assuming it's just a show and that some things havent happened due to production costs, etc etc (the external view)

 

Personally i prefer to start with the assumption that it is a real universe and try to figure out why things have and havent been done from that perspective

 

eg 'why didnt the ship separate?'

- an internal answer would be "because the ship's power was drained and they didnt have enough to separate"

- an external answer would be "because they couldnt afford the effects"

 

know what i mean? :tear:

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So true. I know that there are some things that were strictly due to the money and other factors like that and I will post that if someone asks a question regarding that but I also try to include a "real world" answer in there too. I guess it's because we all are so close to that world through our love of Trek that in our hearts it is real.

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Internal Answer for data's lack of promotion, possibility #1; Although SF had granted him entry into SF...

 

(Perhaps fearful he would fall into the wrong hands and wanted to keep an eye on him.)

 

...and eventually a posting on the Fleets Flagship, some members of the Council might have remained fearful of unknown dangerous potentials of Data and wanted to make sure his rise to power was slowly and carefully guided. (?)

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Internal Answer for data's lack of promotion, possibility #1; Although SF had granted him entry into SF...

 

(Perhaps fearful he would fall into the wrong hands and wanted to keep an eye on him.)

 

...and eventually a posting on the Fleets Flagship, some members of the Council might have remained fearful of unknown dangerous potentials of Data and wanted to make sure his rise to power was slowly and carefully guided. (?)

But how long is slowly. He had been in Starfleet for 34 years by the time of Nemesis. With all the medals he had earned before even coming to the Enterprise (Starfleet Command Decoration for Valor; Starfleet Command Decoration for Gallantry; Medal of Honor, with Clusters; Legion of Honor; The Starcross) he certainly proved himself capable. I realize his humanity developed so much during his time on the Enterprise but it would have been nice if we could have had an episode where Data was offered a promotion on another ship and had to make the decision of whether to stay on the Enterprise or leave. He would turn down the promotion so we wouldn't lose our beloved android but it would have satisfied something for the fans to see that he was actually offered a promotion.

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ANd it would have only taken seconds to sneak that into a show or movie. IT should have been thought of. Its not like Data was just a side character that never was focused one.

GRRRR! :tear:

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Everyone has been making such good points! When I enter into a debate, I try to add something new, because it's boring to read repetitions of what has already been said. But you've not left much open! I'll try...

 

Yes, maybe it was discrimination. We saw that the Enterprise crew greatly respected Data and viewed him as a friend. However, when we looked outside the Enterprise and saw Data as Starfleet saw him, we got a totally different view. Two episodes I can think of off the top of my head are "Measure of a Man" and "Offspring." We saw that Starfleet didn't think Data was much more than a bunch of circuits and such. So it certainly could have been discrimination on Starfleet's part, but certainly not on the crew's part. They knew Data to be more than circuitry. Starfleet didn't.

 

Another reason might be that he was just passed over. This happens in the real world all of the time. People are very qualified for promotions. Perhaps even more qualified than others, and when its time for promotion lists to come out, their name's not on it. I don't think it's any form of discrimination... people are just looked over. Now, it's kind of hard to explain that one for seven plus years, but... it's something.

 

Also, I think that if Data was promoted, he would have moved off the Enterprise, maybe to become some other captain's first officer. I'm sure Data didn't want to leave. And Picard... well... where would Picard be without Data? He certainly didn't want Data to leave. Sometimes you have to make compromise. Maybe he sacrificed getting a promotion so that he could stay with the ship and his friends.

 

Just a few thoughts.

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Data had probably been a lietenant commander for almost 20 years by the time of Nemesis. He had more time in uniform than Geordi, Worf, Troi and maybe even Crusher who probably got a bump up the ladder because of her profession. Data should at least have been a full commander years before Nemesis. But in reality even if you are a good officer the rank of Captain is not promised to you. Even if you attain that rank command of a ship is not always possible (there's only so many ships). I think in the STNG universe it was discrimination and In reality an oversight or deliberate effort to keep the crew together for as long as possible.

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I never really thought about the "needing to leave the ship for promotion" aspect of this problem. The point is a good one, but still, Troi made Commander and stayed where she was.

 

I agree that Star Fleet did not seem to have a good a view as the crew of the Enterprise did, but how the heck would one overcome that? was he doomed to stay at the same rank forever(if he lived)

Boggles my mind! :tear:

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I don't see why being promoted means he has to leave the ship. And even if it DID mean that, they could have (as so many people have said) offered him a promotion and have him turn it down. In fact, that probably would have made a very good Data-episode. A classic "becoming more human" as he decides to stay with his friends rather than move on. But no. They completely ignore it instead. I cannot express how LITTLE sense this makes to me.

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I never really thought about the "needing to leave the ship for promotion" aspect of this problem. The point is a good one, but still, Troi made Commander and stayed where she was.

Troi was different though because she was medical/mental health (blue uniform). She was already at the top position she could achieve any ship so she wouldn't have to be transferred to get a promotion.

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I see where everyone is going with the "he needed to leave the ship to be promoted" scenario....doesn't mean that some of us have to like it!!! :lol: Plain and simple....

:angry:

Click for Spoiler:

HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROMOTED AND THE POWERS THAT BE AT STARFLEET NEEDED TO GET THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR BIASED BIGOTED REAR ENDS!!!!

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