Genetic 101 Discussion

[master_q 0]

Genetics 101

Intro

 

I’m not a big biology person. I never really liked it as much as I do physical science, but I do like genetics. That is my favorite thing in the topic of biology.

 

I probably add a post to this (a reply) talking about punnett squares (only the basics) and some other interesting issues.

 

But I would really like to hear some input on this issue from others.

 

 

As you know genetics is the study of heredity information or the transmission of genetic traits from the parents to the offspring. A genetic trait is like something like your eye color, hair, skin, . . . . .

 

I think we should all on this board talk about this topic. If you like it or not if you think it’s moral or not someday someone on the earth will clone someone. It’s only a manner of time before this happens. I don’t think we can really stop that. I won’t give my option on if it is morally and ethically correct to clone someone or anything like that, but I do want to talk about genetics.

 

Imagine that we had something happen on earth that destroyed some substance that we needed to survive and there was no way of bringing that back. We looked at other animals that used another way of getting that kind of energy for example and did not need that substance to get that energy. So we looked at the animal’s genetic code or DNA (Deoxyribonucleic Acid) and saw a specific code that gave us why they did not need that substance. So we used that code planted it our own code and now we had no problem on surviving.

 

Genetics 101:

I want to look at with all you the chance of an offspring having certain genetic traits.

 

The actual master of all of this or founder of this was Greg Midell who lived in Austria and was a mathematician. He also was a Roman Catholic Monk. He loved to garden and wanted to know why some of his flowers were different from each other and to the fact that they were the same type of planet. He then crossed pollinated different colors to see what would happen.

 

So he took some purple & white flowers (of course the same type of planet) and then cross pollinated them.

 

Parental Generation

3 Purple: P, P, P

3 White: W, W, W

 

He then produced what is called a F1 generation. A F1 generation is the offspring from a cross of 2 varieties

F1: P, P, P, P

Then again

F2: P, P, P, W

(A F2 generation would be considered offspring from crosses among the F1 generation)

 

After he kept on doing this he found out some interesting information!

First of which is the dominate & recessive genes.

A dominate gene as the name implies is dominant. It takes over and wins. The dominate gene in cases like the one that I’m talking about would be “Dark” (other examples would be like eye color, hair color, . . . ). The other is recessive. It is “light”.

 

Notation:

Dominate: CAPITAL

Recessive: lowercase

 

Example: (I’m still using the flowers)

PP = Purple

Pp = Purple

pp = White

Allele: an alternate form of a gene

Heterozygous: a pair of genes with 2 different alleles for a trait (1 dominant & 1 recessive)

Homozygous: a pair of genes for a trait

 

So PP would be homozygous dominant,

Pp would be heterozygous, and

pp would be homozygous recessive.

We also know that heterozygous genes will always be dominant because as I sated ‘dominant always wins’.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_MasterQ@yahoo.com

[savien 0]

You lost me at hello...

[master_q 0]

You lost me at hello...

It is easier then it looks

 

Like flowers for example . . . My real only point was to introduce the concept and working to the idea of the probabilities of an outcome to be dominate or recessive.

 

Where something to be "dominate" when we are talking about flowers or even us as humans then in appearance we are talking about something ‘dark’ in color.

 

Recessive is considered ‘light’

 

 

Example)

Skin, Eyes, Hair, . . . . . . . .

 

So if you have dark eyes (as in the color), then you have dominate genes.

Or if you have light eyes, then you have recessive genes.

 

 

And in the notation . . . . . .

 

“P” is our gene on what color the flower is.

 

If we take all the ‘dark’ flowers who only have dominate homozygous genes.

(Homozygous genes are where both pairs of that gene that were got from the “mother” and one from the “father” are the same)

In this case the notation would be PP

 

And if we have the same as before, but light

Notation: pp

 

Now mix them up and let them interbreed . . . . . .

 

If we mix interbreed them in a way where only outcomes can be PP or Pp

 

Because dominate always wins (dark) so everything will be dark

 

So if Pp will result in being dark (and so will PP)

 

However if we took two Pp and then have them interbreed we have a one in four shot of the outcome to be light!

 

(So a 25% chance to get pp)

 

Does that kind of make sense?

(Just in general terms . . . I know you might not understand how I get a 25% change, but I will explain that later)

 

If it still does not, then please say so.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[savien 0]

Yeah makes sense... but whats the question? Thats what im confused on to be perfectly honest...

 

heh my eyes are blue... so im a pp :wub:

[master_q 0]

Yeah makes sense... but whats the question?  Thats what im confused on to be perfectly honest...

 

heh my eyes are blue... so im a pp :wub:

Well there really is no question (at least not now). I’m hoping to have some good discussions on this topic. Where we can talk about things like “What’s the probability of Riker’s & Troi’s child having dark skin, dark eyes, . . . .?”, and topics like cloning, and things to that nature.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[savien 0]

Oh i see, my bad tell ya what.. ill have to see if i can remember what Troy's and Riker's eye colors are... and hrm.. guess i need to start looking at their parents too.. I dont remember ever seeing Riker's parents.. where they in any episodes?

[Takara_Soong 4]

Oh i see, my bad tell ya what.. ill have to see if i can remember what Troy's and Riker's eye colors are... and hrm.. guess i need to start looking at their parents too..    I dont remember ever seeing Riker's parents.. where they in any episodes?

Riker's father was in Icarus Factor however Riker's mother died when he was an infant and they didn't show any pictures of her or anything. Regarding Troi, you would have to watch Dark Pages as that is the only time her father was seen in TNG and don't forget her son from The Child although he didn't have a father as such.

[savien 0]

True... i dont think that the son would really play part in another child ... since it would be Riker/Troy. Different genes in the poll there. Am I correct on that one?

[master_q 0]

Oh i see, my bad tell ya what.. ill have to see if i can remember what Troy's and Riker's eye colors are... and hrm.. guess i need to start looking at their parents too..    I dont remember ever seeing Riker's parents.. where they in any episodes?

Well of course we have Troi’s Mother & we also have Riker’s Father.

 

We might have seen a picture on the show of Troi’s / Riker’s other parent . . . . have we?

 

But let’s try figure this out on Monday (I don’t really want to today and to the fact that it is getting late)

 

But if someone or you can give a good listings now/Monday of the skin color (dark can just mean dark skinned it does not need to be black), eye color, and hair color that would be great.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[master_q 0]

True... i dont think that the son would really play part in another child ... since it would be Riker/Troy.  Different genes in the poll there.  Am I correct on that one?

Thats true :wub:

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[ensign_beedrill 0]

Oh boy, I remember this! Yeah, one of the few things I do remember from biology. ^-^;; But I think his name was Gregor Mendel.

 

This sounds fun. So you're going to talk about Punnet Squares and things? Great. Genetics was one of my favorite parts of biology, too. I also liked the cells. The cells were pretty neat. I think it's all because deoxyribonucleic is just such a fun word to say.

[master_q 0]

But I think his name was Gregor Mendel.

Thank you for the correction

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[master_q 0]

Genetics

Con’t

 

{Well it seems like we all basically know how to do this so I will forgo the expiations}

 

Monohybrid: 1 characteristic

Dihtbird: 2 characteristics

Tripibybrid: 3 characteristics

Polyhybrid: 4 or more characteristics

 

Note:

Genotype: Is the gene – genetic constitution of an life form as indicated by its set of alleles

Phenotype: The visible characteristic of organism

 

Applications

 

Male = Heterozygous Eye & Homozygous Recessive Hair

Genotype: Ee, hh

Phenotype: dark eyes, light hair

 

Female = Homozygous Recessive Eyes & Heterozygous Hair

Genotype: ee, Hh

Phenotype: light eyes, dark hair

 

So we need to find out all the possibilities of what the male & female can give

1+3,1+4,2+3,2+4 . . . . Ee hh . . . .

 

~~| Eh |Eh |eh |eh

eH|EeHh|EeHh|eeHh|eeHh

eh| Eehh |EeHh|eehh |eehh

eH|EeHh|EeHh|eeHh|eeHh

eh| eehh |Eehh|eehh |eehh

 

. . .

 

Genotypes:

EeHh = 4/16

eeHh = 4/16

Eehh = 4/16

Eehh = 4/16

 

Translating genotypes of phenotypes:

EeHh = Dark eye, Dark hair

eeHh = Light eye, Dark hair

Eehh = Dark eye, Light hair

Eehh = Light eye, Light hair

 

As you can see (and you probably already knew before I actually did the work) everything came out even!

 

 

Another Example)

 

(eyes, hair, skin)

Male: EeHhSs

Female: EeHhSs

What’s the chance of a homozygous recessive for all traits?

1/64

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[master_q 0]

Has anyone seen the PBS Nova show last week where they were talking about the double helix? It was pretty interesting and to the fact that the people that got a Nobel Peace prize really stole a lot of experiment data from another scientist who was a woman.

 

And does anyone want to start on how Riker & Troi’s possible baby might look like? (Just in terms of eyes, hair, and skin)

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[Yillara Skye 1]

Ah, yes I saw that show the one about "Photograph 51" taken by Dr. Franklin(I think that was her name) and was used by Watson and Crick to develop the double helix model we all know today.

 

Yes, this section of biology has always appealed to me(nearly as equally as physics and chemistry do!), and since I was little and first saw deoxyribonucleic acid spelled out in a medical encyclopedia...I have annoyed my family with my ramblings. Great thing about my major is the fact that I can select any section of Biology I want for a laboratory class....and Genetics is one!! Can't wait to get back into school and take that one!!

 

When you discuss genotypes...we can go basic....like the Squares we all learned about and used in school....or go truly advanced and realize the fact that each trait has yet another set of traits that are attached to it that decide certain other factors. Now those squares can get really confusing(Blood types are especially tedious squares to create!)!

For most people the basic squares to get a basic idea on traits, is the most in depth that they go which can be sad cause the advanced squares really tug at one's mind(heck even I am a little rusty. I haven't done these in about 7 years! I would get bored in the Zoology and General Biology class I was taking for Dual enrollment classes-I was a junior in high school and a freshman at the local Community College. And I would make up different squares to see the outcome).

[deagletime 1]

in all honesty...what you are proposing on what troi and rikers baby would look like is impossible to guess...with a human-human breeding pair, u can make certian assumptions..but that the fact the parental generation if from two seperate species..brings a whole new realm of uncertainties... it is possible that the genes that give rise to certain traits hair color , height are on seperate chromosomes on each parent...we cannot even assume that the two have the same number of chromosomes...

 

i recall an episode where the members of the enterprise crews ancestral genes became dominant and they began to revert to ancestors they had evolved from... if memory servers, riker transformed into a primitve neanderthal (simian) while troi transformed into a amphibian... both from two entirely different ancestral groups..thus through convergent evolution, generations later, both species appear to be the same (human-like if u will) though theyre genetic makeup may be entirely different.

[master_q 0]

There are always unknown variables I’m well aware of that and of course this would even have more, but as I have plainly stated this is to be pretty basic and just used as an application. Not to say that any work we actually do or the data we gather is 100% accurate. The reason for this is not really to say how a baby from them will most likely look, but is to use and apply genetics to something in ST

 

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[ensign_beedrill 0]

And does anyone want to start on how Riker & Troi’s possible baby might look like? (Just in terms of eyes, hair, and skin)

Well, that sounds cool. If we're going to be "drawing" squares, it might be useful to use Courier font. In that font, every character is the same width, so things will line up better.

 

Hmmm, this should work... testing...

 

~~|Eh |Eh |eh |eh

eH|EeHh|EeHh|eeHh|eeHh

eh|Eehh|EeHh|eehh|eehh

eH|EeHh|EeHh|eeHh|eeHh

eh|eehh|Eehh|eehh|eehh

[ensign_beedrill 0]

OK... that was my first time trying to change font. ^-^;; I'll try once more and if that doesn't work... does anyone know how to do this?

 

Testing...

 

~~|Eh |Eh |eh |eh

eH|EeHh|EeHh|eeHh|eeHh

eh|Eehh|EeHh|eehh|eehh

eH|EeHh|EeHh|eeHh|eeHh

eh|eehh|Eehh|eehh|eehh

[Yillara Skye 1]

I think that font will have to do, it seems to be the closest to the boxes being even!

[ensign_beedrill 0]

Well, I found a few pictures. Some of these are large, and I didn't want to take up space, so here are some links.

 

Riker and Troi

Riker and Troi (again)

Riker

Riker's father

Troi

Troi's mother

 

I couldn't find one of Troi's father. I know he was in "Dark Page" when she was inside her mother's mind. Also, the picture of Riker's father doesn't show his eyes very well. He was in "The Icarus Factor." Does anyone have pictures, or even just a good memory?

[dsbs 0]

I've always liked Biology best, and genetics most of all. Interesting topic!

 

Although =, I thought the question was about people's opinions on clonning as well, but since it isn't -

The kid would probably have dark hair, since Riker did, Troi did, Lwaxanna and her huband did, and Riker's dad did...as for the eye colour, that would be completely random - either dark or blue. I wonder how much betazoid would be left in him...(Peter David had an interesting view on that in Imzadi, I think it was)

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Has anyone seen the PBS Nova show last week where they were talking about the double helix? It was pretty interesting and to the fact that the people that got a Nobel Peace prize really stole a lot of experiment data from another scientist who was a woman.

 

And does anyone want to start on how Riker & Troi’s possible baby might look like? (Just in terms of eyes, hair, and skin)

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

You can not accurately determine a genotype from a phenotype.

 

Each dark haired person could potentially be carrying a recessive gene so they could possibly have a blonde youngun' (excuse me - offspring)

[master_q 0]

Has anyone seen the PBS Nova show last week where they were talking about the double helix? It was pretty interesting and to the fact that the people that got a Nobel Peace prize really stole a lot of experiment data from another scientist who was a woman.

 

And does anyone want to start on how Riker & Troi’s possible baby might look like? (Just in terms of eyes, hair, and skin)

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

You can not accurately determine a genotype from a phenotype.

 

Each dark haired person could potentially be carrying a recessive gene so they could possibly have a blonde youngun' (excuse me - offspring)

Well I’m aware of that and I have been trying to keep that very clear that this is not to say 100%. What you are referring to is something that we don’t know 100% and I have been saying that any kind of probability of what is more likely is in itself is not a absolute ratio of probability. And I have also stated this is not in anyway shape or form to really determine what or what not is more likely. This is only for an application or practical use of “Genetics 101" and trying to put a ST twist into it.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[master_q 0]

Dsbs, you are more then welcome to put your opinions on cloning in this topic (because that does relate to genetics)

 

And I’m hoping that we move into sub-topics of that nature (like cloning and other sub-topics) about genetics

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[dsbs 0]

Well, getting me started on cloning is kind of like getting me started on Data...

 

I think it's wrong. Period. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should or you have to, and recreating an entire human being is wrong, not to mention the fact that, as you cant give the clone the same experiences, the result will be another individual, so it's pointless. And being able to choose you'r baby's hair colour and personality our of a catalogue completely takes away from the beauty and the miracle of life....(need breathing time...I wrote an essay on this, actually...I hope no one minds if, when I find it, I post it...)

[master_q 0]

Well, getting me started on cloning is kind of like getting me started on Data...

 

I think it's wrong. Period. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should or you have to, and recreating an entire human being is wrong, not to mention the fact that, as you cant give the clone the same experiences, the result will be another individual, so it's pointless. And being able to choose you'r baby's hair colour and personality our of a catalogue completely takes away from the beauty and the miracle of life....(need breathing time...I wrote an essay on this, actually...I hope no one minds if, when I find it, I post it...)

 

I agree and I really can’t add anymore to what you said. I don’t think it would be right to clone someone (or to have a 'custom made baby'). It is just not morally or ethically correct.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[Xeroc 0]

First, Genetics is very interesting and probably my second favorite field of scientific interest. (First being Quantum Physics and Theoretical Physics)

 

I believe that cloning is not ethically "wrong", given that this person were treated exactly the same as any other human being (for, cloning is really no different than creating an identical twin!). I, however, think that we should not try to clone a human now. I think we do not have the appropriate technology to do it sucessfully and free of any defects. I also think cloning is less "evil" and more "useless". I se no real signifigant reason to clone a person, as you are just making an identical twin. "Cloning" individual organs or cells, however, I think could be helpul in medicine to remove the need for transplants, and make each a perfect match!

 

About "designer babies" - this technology is still pretty futuristic. I think it is a very tough issue. For example, if you asked people: "is it right to genetically modify ourselves to remove a cancer-causing gene?", almost everyone would say yes. If you asked: "is it right to make people smarter, or stronger, or better-looking?" you would get mixed replies. I, personally, am in favor of genetically manipulaing human to make ourselfs better. This, in the future could allow humans to rise to heights never before dreamed of. We could rise above poverty, greed, malice, and a whole host of counter-productive human traits. I think the main problem with this is some stigma from the way it has been used in the past (like hitler). Keep in mind, these are just my opinions.

[dsbs 0]

First, Genetics is very interesting and probably my second favorite field of scientific interest. (First being Quantum Physics and Theoretical Physics)

 

I believe that cloning is not ethically "wrong", given that this person were treated exactly the same as any other human being (for, cloning is really no different than creating an identical twin!).  I, however, think that we should not try to clone a human now.  I think we do not have the appropriate technology to do it sucessfully and free of any defects.  I also think cloning is less "evil" and more "useless".  I se no real signifigant reason to clone a person, as you are just making an identical twin.  "Cloning" individual organs or cells, however, I think could be helpul in medicine to remove the need for transplants, and make each a perfect match!

 

About "designer babies" - this technology is still pretty futuristic.  I think it is a very tough issue.  For example, if you asked people: "is it right to genetically modify ourselves to remove a cancer-causing gene?", almost everyone would say yes.  If you asked: "is it right to make people smarter, or stronger, or better-looking?" you would get mixed replies.  I, personally, am in favor of genetically manipulaing human to make ourselfs better.  This, in the future could allow humans to rise to heights never before dreamed of.  We could rise above poverty, greed, malice, and a whole host of counter-productive human traits.  I think the main problem with this is some stigma from the way it has been used in the past (like hitler).  Keep in mind, these are just my opinions.

I don't think they would be - if they were created in the hope of replacing someone else, or being a super-human, they'd have a lot to live up to. and if they weren't, why bother cloning?

 

If we genetically improved ourselves, we'd be taking half the fun out of life. "Why work to be better when you can just tweak a gene or two?". If we could only rise to new heights by fooling around with the DNA G-d gave us, it wouldn't be real or natural, and it wouldn't have the same meaning...IMO, that is...

 

 

[Yillara Skye 1]

Cloning presents a problem...(no I am not for the cloning of humans, and I can bearly tolerate the idea of cloning animals...) the cells that a new being is cloned from are not new, these cells have reached maturity and are begining their slow decay into cell death. When you clone an animal, like the obvious example Dolly, they are essentially given "old" DNA, this will of course limit the life span of a clone (as was Dolly's demise, her offspring are healthy and going to live a normal life span, but not her). This is so since the cell was not at it's first phases of it's cycle. And as we all know(or then again some may not), DNA only can go through X number of replications before too many pieces are missing(fragments of DNA drop off when replication and transcription occur)...and DOlly was too far into the replication cycle, she was essentially born old. This would more than likely be the case of any species being cloned, their offspring would be "normal", born young and have a normal life span.