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Captain Bolivar

How Would You Rate "Damage"?

What rating would you give "Damage" out of 10?   60 members have voted

  1. 1. What rating would you give "Damage" out of 10?

    • 10
      17
    • 9.5
      9
    • 9
      7
    • 8.5
      6
    • 8
      9
    • 7.5
      0
    • 7
      4
    • 6.5
      1
    • 6
      1
    • 5.5
      1
    • 5
      0
    • 4
      1
    • 3
      1
    • 2
      0
    • 1
      1
    • 0
      2

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64 posts in this topic

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When Archer pirated the alien ship's warp coil, I was absolutely furious. Then again, one must weigh matters. A planet vesus a space ship. Somehow, I think the planet is going to be more important. Hopefully, Archer will make an attempt to rights ome of is wrongs by giving the alien ship a warp coil on the way home. I think his decission to "steal" the warp coil was wrong, as I find stealing to be wrong, despite the reason. However, as many have said, he had no choice.

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I gave this one a 4.

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I did not like the way they delt with Tpols addiction. As people were saying in anouther thread she was resonsable for some of the deaths and I do belive that most of the show was centered on that. I just did not like them stealing that warp coil I know that he had no choice but when I knew that was going to happen I almost fast fowarded that part of the show I just did not want to watch it. I did look to see what shows were coming up and they do look alot better than this one does so I am still looking foward to the rest of the season.

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I also did not directly look at that scene. I was taping the epsiode and deliberately walked out of the room when the piracy started. I have already watched the replay, and only saw the end where Archer gave the alien captain an explanation. I have yet to see the entire raid.

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I gave it a 7 and that was being very generous. Overall it didn't have quite the momentum it needed.

 

Regarding Archer's decision:

Click for Spoiler:

I thought it was a tough decision - I agree once the Xindi situation is resolved they need to go back and find that ship. Is it wrong to steal - to put the lives of a ship full of aliens at risk to save a planet and the human race? I'm not sure I can answer that.

 

 

T'Pol

Click for Spoiler:

I find it very interesting that everyone is so critical of Archer but so accepting of T'Pol. I think it is important to point out that T'Pol isn't unlucky. She made conscious decisions - once before to engage in a mind meld. And this time she made a decision to take drugs.

 

I couldn't believe a science officer was actually saying - I didn't think it would be harmful in small doses.

 

Did anyone else not notice that she took work crews away from more critical assignments to restore E deck with a lie that Cmdr Tucker needed the materials. She was putting the ship's safety at risk to feed her habit.

 

It was incredibly unethical of Phlox not to alert the Captain that his First Officer was unfit for duty.

 

I found the message that it's okay to say yes to drugs much more disturbing than the shower scene

 

And how hypocritical was it that she objected to Archer's actions putting others at risk but she had no qualms about putting her own crew at risk to feed her habit. This character has no credibility with me

 

 

I did notice the role change - it was Trip not T'Pol telling Archer he did the right thing.

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I knew that people would have problems with him taking the warp coil. I also knew full well that he would take it before Casey Biggs ship left the first time. There was no way around it, it's one of these not so pleasant things that leaders must do at times to save their people. In this case, Archer could have remained warp-less for the 40 years it would take to get back to Earth (or however long it might take) but then again, Earth won't be there anymore in a few months. So what do you do?

 

You bite your tongue, swallow hard grit your teeth and tell yourself you can live with it. Listen to Ben Sisko's closing speech in Pale Moonlight.

 

"I Can Live With It...."

 

It's done. It had to be done. There was no other choice.

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I gave it a 9.5/10, the T'pol thing does make sense and it's a great lesson about addiction how it can throw away all your reasoning. The Archer thing I don't know why people are comparing it to Iraq, Archer needed to do that all other options were exhausted.

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I knew that people would have problems with him taking the warp coil. I also knew full well that he would take it before Casey Biggs ship left the first time. There was no way around it, it's one of these not so pleasant things that leaders must do at times to save their people. In this case, Archer could have remained warp-less for the 40 years it would take to get back to Earth (or however long it might take) but then again, Earth won't be there anymore in a few months. So what do you do?

 

You bite your tongue, swallow hard grit your teeth and tell yourself you can live with it. Listen to Ben Sisko's closing speech in Pale Moonlight.

 

"I Can Live With It...."

 

It's done. It had to be done. There was no other choice.

Click for Spoiler:

That's where we disagree, though. I know that my course of action may have resulted in Earth getting blown up, but there's almost always a third alternative. They're running into ships out there all the time; it's not impossible to find one (even on impulse) that IS willing to trade. I'm almost certain that neither Picard nor Janeway would've done this, and they're the captains I respect the most. I'm not a subscriber to that Vulcan "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" philosophy. I can understand the decision; I just don't agree with it. Admittedly, though, no one here knows what they'd actually do without being in that situation.

<_<

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What a GREAT episode!!! Archer most certainly made the right decision, it was a tough one but the only one he had left as an option. And I enjoyed how they brought out the addiction of T'Pol. They did it in a way you can't really be very angry with her actions.

Seeing Casey Biggs again was great as well.

The show becomes more and more the Star Trek I know and love. Kudos to TPTB for doing a job well done!

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I was actually looking foward to the new episode, but came out of it just like I came out of many others, whoopdi-freaking doo. I mean after Azati Prime, and watching the ship basically in bad shape, I think the writers pushed themselves in a corner that they had to write a cheesy scene for the beginning of Damage. So the Xindi leave the ship a drift, and not take any prisoners. Some episodes ago (Rajin I belive) the xindi would not hasitate to board the ship. Why did they not do it now.

 

The whole archer's descision was a big so what as well. I guess the lack of emotion and lack of anything really just made me not care. I read the trektoday review and the very first sentence was comparing this to DS9's In the Pale Moonlight. There is no comparison, because what Sisko went through, you went through it with him. You felt his anguish, his remorse. I didn't feel the same way with Archer. However, on a very good note, I liked the connection to Anomaly from earlier in the season. The Pirates did say that the expance will make Archer do things that he would not normally do just to survive. Archer showed that which was a nice touch.

 

As for T'pol, great, she is a drug addict. Is there any character on this show anymore that can be sympathized with or has the writers killed everyone of them. (BTW, what ever happened with Trip and his sister and his passion to get the weapon)

 

Not the entire episode was bad. It was nice to see the "She" that Degra was talking about. I'm sure she's a sphere builder because if you remember Harbinger, it was the exact same speicies. It's also good that there is friction between the ranks of the Xindi races now. One question I do have is are the Xindi just arrogent or just plain stupid. They attack earth on a basis of what someone who you may not trust says and you don't have PROOF. Um'kay.

 

One other thing, is it just me, or was ENT just way too dark last night, and I'm talking about lighting. Yeah I know the ship is attacked, but I could barely see a thing. I think that's why I started loosing interest with 20 minutes left.

 

Grade: C

 

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Hey boys and girls...good to be back after a 7 week (err...something like that) recess. Overall...it was good episode. I give it a 9.5/10.

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I was a little disappointed at first at how quickly the opening sequence was over, but I'm glad that they moved the story right along. It was not an easy decision for Archer to make but I think that he had no choice. People dislike leaders when they have to make tough choices....its the nature of things.

Can't wait for the nex episode. Bring it!

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That's where we disagree, though. I know that my course of action may have resulted in Earth getting blown up, but there's almost always a third alternative. They're running into ships out there all the time; it's not impossible to find one (even on impulse) that IS willing to trade. I'm almost certain that neither Picard nor Janeway would've done this, and they're the captains I respect the most. I'm not a subscriber to that Vulcan "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" philosophy. I can understand the decision; I just don't agree with it. Admittedly, though, no one here knows what they'd actually do without being in that situation.

:)

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They had 3 days at Warp 3 to get to the Location Degra pointed them to. THey had no warp engines and the likelyhood of another ship coming along with an extra warp coil that would leave them with enough time to get to where they had to go was extremely unlikely. More then extremely unlikely. I would think it would be as unlikely as me going to the top of a large building jumping into the air and flying off to the moon.

 

Archre sits and waits for another ship, Earth and billions of people die.

 

Archer takes the Warp coil, gets to where he has to go and can save those billions of people.

 

 

Tell me what other options he had?

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I loved this episode! Very intense and I really liked the internal struggles.

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That's where we disagree, though. I know that my course of action may have resulted in Earth getting blown up, but there's almost always a third alternative. They're running into ships out there all the time; it's not impossible to find one (even on impulse) that IS willing to trade. I'm almost certain that neither Picard nor Janeway would've done this, and they're the captains I respect the most. I'm not a subscriber to that Vulcan "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" philosophy. I can understand the decision; I just don't agree with it. Admittedly, though, no one here knows what they'd actually do without being in that situation.

:)

 

Click for Spoiler:

They had 3 days at Warp 3 to get to the Location Degra pointed them to. THey had no warp engines and the likelyhood of another ship coming along with an extra warp coil that would leave them with enough time to get to where they had to go was extremely unlikely. More then extremely unlikely. I would think it would be as unlikely as me going to the top of a large building jumping into the air and flying off to the moon.

 

Archre sits and waits for another ship, Earth and billions of people die.

 

Archer takes the Warp coil, gets to where he has to go and can save those billions of people.

 

 

 

Tell me what other options he had?

I have to agree with VBG.

 

Click for Spoiler:

While Archer had no choice, but to steal the warp coil, I still disagree with his actions. Theft is wrong despite the reason, and that's what Archer did, he stole a warp coil. Fortunately, very few or maybe none of the aliens were killed in the heist. I believe Archer can right this wrong by giving the aliens a warp coil on their way back to Earth, or maybe even ask the Vulcans to ferry them home.

 

 

Ultimately, I agree with Archer's actions, just not how he went about them.

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This question is slightly off topic. Was Casey Biggs Ligate Damar in DS9?

 

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I did not notice that T'pol pulled people off more critlcal work to repair the deck her drugs were on! That is reprehensible! I missed that entirley, so I am going to have to pay attention to this when I watch this episode again. Really good observation, TUH.

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This question is slightly off topic. Was Casey Biggs Ligate Damar in DS9?

 

Click for Spoiler:

I did not notice that T'pol pulled people off more critlcal work to repair the deck her drugs were on! That is reprehensible! I missed that entirley, so I am going to have to pay attention to this when I watch this episode again. Really good observation, TUH.

Yes he was.

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I give it a 9.

 

This episode made me ache.

 

Click for Spoiler:

Favorite bits:Archer and T'Pol in sickbay and their fight in the ready room, Archer and Phlox's conversation in the dark, and the end scene between him and Trip.

 

As far as the addiction goes, I got the impression that T'Pol was basically addicted to the stuff with her very first exposure, so it wasn't really her fault. Yeah, she was dumb to not go to Phlox with the problem first thing, instead of lying to herself that she could handle it and it would help her relationships with the crew, yadda yadda. Sounds like the rationalizations of an addict to me. I guess even Vulcans aren't perfect, and make stupid decisions from time to time.

 

I would have liked it better tho, if the writers had her become addicted because she was trying to build up an immunity so Enterprise could use the stuff (nope, not even gonna try to spell it) to protect the ship from anomolies.

 

As far as Archer's decision goes, I don't see that he had any choice either. For those of us who are SG1 fans also, is this something Jack would have done? Yasureyabetcha, just another "damn distasteful thing" done for the cause.

 

I don't think Archer made the decision lightly, tho. This whole situation is wrecking havoc with him, and if you need proof, go back and look at him in season one and then take another look at him now. He's looking positively haggard, even without having the **** beat out of him.

 

I'm really enjoying watching how a good, decent man, an easygoing man who only wants to explore and make friends is being transformed into a warrior and a hero almost against his will. Is it heroic to steal, even out of dire necessity? I don't know. I do think it is heroic to make hard decisions and accept the consequences, no matter how damaging they are to you're ability to sleep at night, however.

 

I'll bet he he keeps hearing that marauder's voice over and over in his head, "Morality will not serve you well in the Expanse, Captain."

Edited by thayln

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As far as the addiction goes, I got the impression that T'Pol was basically addicted to the stuff with her very first exposure, so it wasn't really her fault. 

Is there a particular scene that gave you that impression? I'll go rewatch it but the impression I got is she wanted to experiment with emotions. What really bugs me is she was more concerned with someone finding out rather than feeling regret for the loss she was responsible for.

 

I'm really enjoying watching how a good, decent man, an easygoing man who only wants to explore and make friends is being transformed into a warrior and a hero almost against his will.  Is it heroic to steal, even out of dire necessity?  I don't know.  I do think it is heroic to make hard decisions and accept the consequences, no matter how damaging they are to you're ability to sleep at night, however. 

 

I'll bet he he keeps hearing that marauder's voice over and over in his head, "Morality will not serve you well in the Expanse, Captain."

 

That's a good analysis - I think Archer is showing he is made of something really deep

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What really bugs me is she was more concerned with someone finding out rather than feeling regret for the loss she was responsible for.

But I think that's a real and typical reaction of an addict. Would a Vulcan react the same way? Maybe not, but it isn't surprising to me that she, as an addict would be concerned about hiding the fact from everyone and only telling the Dr. when she really had no choice.

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QUOTE (thayln @ Apr 23 2004, 02:23 PM)

As far as the addiction goes, I got the impression that T'Pol was basically addicted to the stuff with her very first exposure, so it wasn't really her fault.

 

QUOTE (UnicornHunter)

Is there a particular scene that gave you that impression? I'll go rewatch it but the impression I got is she wanted to experiment with emotions. What really bugs me is she was more concerned with someone finding out rather than feeling regret for the loss she was responsible for.

 

Yeah, when she finally tell's Plox what's going on, she's describing how it felt coming off that first exposure. That's where I got the feeling she was already addicted. Watch it again and let me know what you think. My tape is at a friend's house right now.

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Thalyn, I rewatched that scene. However, while she did indicate coming off of the initial exposure did help her access emotions - she then stated she "wanted" more. Phlox also pointed out she must have known how dangerous trellium was and she indicated she didn't think a small amount would be harmful. For an uninformed civilian such an assumption might be overlooked - but she was the Science Officer - a scientist would know that drugs have to be tested before their side effects become clear.

 

Phlox also asked when she realized she was "becoming" addicted.

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Wouldn't the fact that she immediately "wanted more" be a sign of addiction?

 

Anyway, I'm not trying to pick nits with you. I totally agree that she was being dumb and irresponsible, especially as a science officer. We'll see, maybe there will be reprocussions in a later episode.

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Another 10 here! This arc just keeps on rocking! B)

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Thalyn, I rewatched that scene.  However, while she did indicate coming off of the initial exposure did help her access emotions - she then stated she "wanted" more.  Phlox also pointed out she must have known how dangerous trellium was and she indicated she didn't think a small amount would be harmful.  For an uninformed civilian such an assumption might be overlooked - but she was the Science Officer - a scientist would know that drugs have to be tested before their side effects become clear.

 

Phlox also asked when she realized she was "becoming" addicted.

Here's the scene in question:

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Wouldn't the fact that she immediately "wanted more" be a sign of addiction? 

 

Anyway, I'm not trying to pick nits with you.  I totally agree that she was being dumb and irresponsible, especially as a science officer.  We'll see, maybe there will be reprocussions in a later episode.

I want more dessert or more sleep or more money but that doesn't mean I will suffer physiological symptoms if I don't get them.

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I gave this episode a 9/10. Not at all the kind of episode I was expecting, it was even better.. Very interesting episode.

 

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"You can't save humanity without holding on to what makes you human", another tough decision for Archer.. I really love the development he has gone through this season.

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I gave it an 8. I wasn't sure about Archer and the whole warp coil. It just didn't seem like something a Captain would do, although I can understand why it was done. It was good to see that he was struggling with the situation on a moral basis and adds a human folly characteristic to him.

 

could have done without the shower scene. It did not lend anything to conveying the desparate nature of T'pol's situation. I thought her clawing around in the cargo hold in a spacesuit was far more effective in conveying her plight.

 

I totally agree with that.

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Well, count me as a heathen who wasn't offended by the shower scene. What can I say? It made sense within the context of a story and Connor looks scrumptious when wet. Color me heterosexual. Nothing wrong with passionate kissing and "the scene" showcased T'Pol's deteriorating mind set. She is craving emotion and experience. She is physically attracted to Trip (obviously B) ) but she is becoming increasingly unhinged and fears losing total control. Her initially sleeping with Trip (and most likely sleeping with him subsequently--Phlox pointed "particularly Comander Tucker" during her confession was telling) was a sign she's losing control and giving in to her desires for emotionally heightened experience of all kinds. Sex is a powerful experience both physically and emotionally. She's afraid subconsciously that she's going to lose it completely, thus hurting him and everyone else. I'll reserve judgement on whether the drug addiction is a good story or not. Personally, I don't think a woman needs to be excused for having sex. Perhaps a Vulcan does. I'm not sure.

 

I thought the resolution of the cliffhanger was lame but Archer's dilemma sure made it all worthwhile. Talk about damage. What a clever title. I was impresed that Archer didn't rationalize it away. He didn't bulls**t himself. He knew full well what he was doing to a ship full of aliens who were just like Archer and company a short year ago. Talk about powerful stuff. I give it an 8.5 for the lameness of the cliffhanger resolution.

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I'm really enjoying watching how a good, decent man, an easygoing man who only wants to explore and make friends is being transformed into a warrior and a hero almost against his will.  Is it heroic to steal, even out of dire necessity?  I don't know.  I do think it is heroic to make hard decisions and accept the consequences, no matter how damaging they are to you're ability to sleep at night, however.

 

I'll bet he he keeps hearing that marauder's voice over and over in his head, "Morality will not serve you well in the Expanse, Captain."

Yes, this transformation is something to watch. I still hope that he somehow manages to correct the warp coil situation once they complete their mission, on their return trip home to earth. I actually expect this of him.

 

Because no matter what that marauder said about morality, Archer still has it. He has done things expediently, but he has not adopted that approach as a way of life. He still has a conscience.

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I was really disappointed in "Damage". If they keep on putting in all that sex and explicit material they're gonna ruin Enterprise. Sorry to say but I think Enterprise is going down the drain. I gave it a '0'.

Edited by StarfleetMarine

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I agree with MoulinRouge. The exploring of the subconscious mind of T'Pol through the shower scene was interesting and a vital part of why she chose to go to Phlox, (she goes to him straight after). Vulcans don't dream. We found that out in Fusion. The first time T'Pol dreamed anything was when she didn't meditate. At the end of Fusion she envied Archer his good dreams.

 

The first time she dreamt after that was in Impulse, when she was coming down off the effects of the Trellium-D

 

She has deep feelings for Trip more than any other human. In the scene

Click for Spoiler:

she is dreaming of having passionate sex with him. Then she becomes violent and turns into a monster, like the Vulcans of Impulse. Then she tries to kill Trip.

 

 

It is a clear analogy of someone who is afraid that they are going to hurt the person they have feelings for, through their behaviour. I found it fascinating and an important indicator of what T'Pol is experiencing.

 

StarfleetMarine, Trip and T'Pol kissed and caressed in a shower. They neither had 'sex', nor showed anything 'explicit'. We saw more of Archer's body in the shower scene at the beginning of Strange New World.

 

By the way. From what I've read in other lists, there may have been some areas in the US where the shower scene was cut. I do not know this for sure, mind, but some people are genuinely confused as they watched the show and didn't see a shower scene.

 

The extreme prudes of the so called moral majority won't be satified until they've turned the USA into a place that makes the Taliban rule in Afghanistan look liberal.

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